Calley & Casey Means: The Truth About Ozempic, the Pill, and How Big Pharma Keeps You Sick

Tucker Carlson interviews Calley and Casey Means on August 16, 2024

Whistleblowers Calley and Casey Means expose how Big Pharma co-opted government agencies and the food industry to poison America and keep us sick. They have published a new book book: "Good Energy".

This transcript was machine-generated from the [2hr 20min] podcast. Many spelling errors have been corrected, and speaker names have been added for the benefit of the reader.

Snippets:

Tucker Carlson: Here's our latest episode with Calley and Casey Means. Okay, so I actually think this book is going to... I never say this, but I mean it. I think this book is going to have a big effect on the course of the country. And the reason I think that is because you two are the perfect people to write it. And so I never do this, but I just want to start with your bios. You are siblings, Casey and Calley, you happen to have grown up in the same neighborhood as me in Washington, like block from me. I know the world that you're from. You're writing about food, nutrition, the regulatory bodies that are poisoning the country.

Calley, you are a lobbyist and, Casey, you are a Stanford-educated physician. I just want to go through quickly each one, and starting with you, Casey. You're a doctor. Tell us the progression of your thinking on this and what it did to your life.

Casey Means: Yeah, absolutely. So trained at Stanford Medical School, then trained as a head of neck surgeon. Undergrad Stanford also. Undergrad Stanford Medical School at Stanford, then went on to train and had a neck surgery. Nine years into my postgraduate training.

Tucker Carlson: How did she do in medical school in college?

Casey Means: Did well, was present in my Stanford class, graduating top of my class with honors in medical school, and went on to a very competitive surgical subspecialty, head of neck.

Tucker Carlson: I'm just saying that because normally I dismiss credentials out of hand, but these are real credentials, and they matter, I to your credibility.

Casey Means: Okay. I did what every good little medical student wants to do, which is climb the ranks of that academic ladder.

Tucker Carlson: You killed it.

Casey Means: Did well. I got to the top of that mountain, nine years into my postgraduate training, and I looked around me, and I realized that patients in America are getting destroyed. Children, adults, the elderly. You're so distracted in your little surgical subspecialty, focusing on the ear, nose, and throat where I was, and you get distracted. You look around what's happening in Americans, and our health is getting worse every single year. Patients in America are getting much sicker every year, more depressed. We're getting infertile. And life expectancy is going down in a country that's spending almost 2X more than in either country in the world.

Tucker Carlson: So before we get into the details of what you did. Tell us, I mean, of why you did what you did. Tell us what you did. So you spent your whole life working toward this goal. You reach the top, and then you decide not to do it.

Casey Means: Yeah. I'm in the operating room in my fifth year of my surgical residency, and I'm looking down at a patient in front of me who's on our third revision sinus surgery. I know how to diagnose her. I know how to write the prescriptions. I know how to do the surgery. But what I realized in that moment was like, I have no idea why this patient's actually sick. She has so many other health issues, prediabetes, arthritis. She's got some brain fog, she's got obesity, and she's got this sinus issue. In my training, I was never, ever, ever taught to look at the whole patient, to look at how all these things are connected. I was only taught how to do the surgery and then bill for it. I realized that there's a huge problem in how we're practicing medicine right now, which is we're ignoring the root causes of why Americans are sick, and we're profiting off of patients getting sick and then doing things to them. That's the way the business model of health care works. The way that health care, which is the largest and fastest growing industry in the United States, makes money is you have more patients in the system having more things done to them for longer periods of time.

When I put some of these pieces together and realized that my training had totally essentially incapacitated me from really understanding why patients are sick and how to actually help them thrive, I actually had to walk away from the surgical world because I realized that I was going to be making money off of essentially not spending time helping patients understand their health and actually just profiting off their illness. So I left.

Tucker Carlson: So nine years into medical training at Stanford, you gave it up voluntarily.

Casey Means: On my 30th birthday, I walked into the office of the chair of the department and I put down the scalpel, and I walked away. I devoted my life to why are Americans getting sicker every year? Why are 50% of American children dealing with a chronic health issue? This was less than 1% 50 years ago. Why is our health getting destroyed the more that we spend? That's what --

Tucker Carlson: So what did they say when you walk into your colleagues at Stanford and say, I'm giving it up at 30.

Casey Means: It wasn't really a conversation. I knew that I couldn't cut into one more person until I understood why Americans are getting sicker every single year. I think that the unfortunate thing is that doctors don't really understand because every level of our education is systematically focused on blinding us from thinking about root causes. We have over 100 medical and surgical subspecialists specialties right now. How you make money in the American health care system is you take a patient with 10 different issues and you send them to 10 different specialists, put them on 10 different meds, may they eventually have 10 different surgeries. You never actually are taught how to put the pieces together, look at the whole body as a system. Which, of course, it is. And part of this is because who are the people underwriting our medical education? It's the pharmaceutical companies. We are taught how to be very algorithmic and robotic and how we look at patients. And so ultimately, I left the surgical world and I went down the rabbit hole of asking, why? Why are we getting sicker every year?

Tucker Carlson: It's just such a radical move to do something like that.

Casey Means: Yeah.

Tucker Carlson: I mean -- Your whole life, you're working toward a goal and then you give it up?

Casey Means: Yeah. After nine years. This is the thing that I understood and that I am working and we are spending our lives to evangelize this book, Good Energy, is that the reasons why Americans are getting sicker every year are very simple. Americans want to be healthy. Americans do not want to die early. They do not want to see their kids with all these chronic health issues like autism and food allergies and obesity and prediabetes and 40% of teens with mental health issues. No one wants this. But the system is rigged against the the American patient to create diseases and then profit off of them. This is happening across almost every lever of our major industries, from processed food to tech to pharma. And so really what Americans need to understand is that these trends can stop immediately. We need to understand why we're sick, which is primarily our toxic food system and the ways that systematically several industries are profiting off of our addiction and illness. And if we can understand that and create very simple top-down and bottom-up strategy to address it, Americans will become rapidly healthier. As a physician, I took an oath to do no harm, and I took an oath to help patients thrive. The way that we can do that is by helping them understand the lovers of corruption that are essentially keeping us sick.

Tucker Carlson: I guess the reason I'm pressing you, Calley, and you're the person, I mean, this is a compliment, and Casey doesn't want to talk about herself, which is great. But I think it's relevant because it speaks to the intensity of your commitment and to your sincerity. You're giving up the prize. You're giving up the money because you really believe this. I just want to establish that at the outset.

Casey Means: Thank you.

Tucker Carlson: Before we say anything more. So you're her brother. You're very close. I happen to know that. You're obviously proud of your sister. President of her class at Stanford. It's the thing like, oh, my sister is at Stanford. She's a Stanford Medical School. She decides not to practice surgery, the most impressive of all specialties. What's your reaction to it?

Calley Means: I called her and said she was a complete idiot. When we were raised in Washington DC, right next to you, condition to climb up the ladder. Of course. I went to Stanford. I went to Harvard Business School. That was what life is about, just collecting those credentials. Casey, research at the NIH, as we talked about top of her Stanford med school class. me, that was it. And truly, and you hit on this, she had no... I mean, this is her life. This is her identity.

Tucker Carlson: Of course.

Calley Means: This is everything to her. And she bravely stepped away with no plan, just from a moral obligation. I thought she was a complete idiot. And what I know now, and what I've been radicalized on, is she has convinced me that this is the most important issue in the country. It's an issue of corruption that starts at Stanford Med School being 50% funded by Pharma and not training doctors on one nutrition class. Stanford Med School, Harvard Med School, 90% of med schools don't offer or require one nutrition class. Doctors simply aren't learning why people are getting sick, which we'd all assume they do.

Eighty percent of the course loads in pharmacology. It's on how to take people that are getting sicker and sicker and manage those conditions, not to cure them. And that's a huge problem because that dynamic of the largest industry in the country is destroying human capital.

Tucker Carlson: So as your sister is on one end of the equation, you're on the other. So you both have... You're from a community of strivers. That's what DC is.

Calley Means: Sure, exactly.

Tucker Carlson: And merit badge gatherers. And you've gotten two of the greatest merit badges ever. HBS, Stanford Medical School. But you're all of a sudden finding yourself in Washington. Can you just explain your background a little bit?

Calley Means: Yeah. So just in case he was a bit smarter than me on the biology route, I wanted to be contributing to politics. So from an early age and went to Stanford to go back into politics, studied economics, political science, went straight back to campaigns after school. What I learned quickly is that in campaigns over, you work for the biggest spenders in DC, and I found myself across the desk from food industry and the Pharma industry. The Pharma industry spends five times more in DC than the oil industry. By far the biggest spender, bipartisan, you're working for Pharma. But starting with food, I learned early on that the food industry, and this is my construct, the food industry and the process food industry was created by the cigarette industry. I think this is very telling. It's something I learned. In the 1990s, the two largest food companies in the world were R. J. Reynolds and Philip Morris. What What happened is when the Surgeon General, way too late in the 1980s, said cigarettes were maybe problematic, these were some of the largest companies in the world with the largest cash piles of any company in the world.

So what they did is they used their cash piles to buy food companies. We think about the '80s as the Wall Street era M&A in a lot of deals. The two biggest M&A deals up until 1990 in world history were cigarette companies buying food companies. So you had in the '90s, these two cigarette companies very strategically do two things. They shifted their thousands of scientists who were experts in making cigarettes addictive to the Food Department. So we had the rise of ultra-processed food, where our food now is a science experiment. The second thing they did is they shifted their lobbying. So the cigarette industry, of course, was the biggest lobbying spenders and had a good playbook. They shifted their playbook on lobbying and rigging institutions of trust to food, so they created the food pyramid. So the cigarette industry, through the food and the companies they bought, paid off the FDA, the USDA, Harvard to create report saying sugar doesn't cause obesity. And they lobbied for the food pyramid in the 1990s, we all remember, which said animal-based fats are bad, carbs are good. Remember, carbs and sugar were basically the base of the pyramid.

So the American diet, because of that, because we trust our medical institutions, which they know, we shifted our diet significantly to ultra-processed food. It was very intentional, the food pyramid. That was a ultra-processed food marketing document that carbs were fine, sugar was fine. And that shifted. And you look at dietary patterns. Today, kids, a child diet is 70% ultra-processed food. Now, what does that mean? Those are literally foods invented by the cigarette industry to addict kids. Obviously, we've got sugar, but there's thousands of different ingredients and science concoctions that scientists work in a lab to make it more palpable, to make it more addictive. So food consumption, calorie consumption has skyrocketed. And the byproduct of these toxic ingredients that the cigarette industry I watched and helped with this, bought off the USDA, bought off the FDA, is they wreck havoc among ourselves. The foundation of our diet is ingredients that we aren't biologically made to eat that didn't exist 100 years ago. The foundation of our diet is three things. When you look at any label, it's added sugar, processed sugar, which basically didn't exist 100 years ago. It's just from natural sources. Ultra-processed grains, which were invented 100 years ago.

The processing takes the fiber off. They're basically hidden sugars, devoid of nutritional value. And seed oil. Seed oil is the top source of American calories. And this is actually seed oil.

Seed oil is the top source of American calories.

Soybean oil, canola oil. This is the baseline of American calories right now. And these seed oils were actually created by John D. Rockefeller as a byproduct of oil production. It's basically engine lubricant. And the Rockefeller and those aligned with them actually lobbied to have this suitable for human consumption. That's how seed oil came into the... They're much cheaper, but they're highly inflammatory. And just by definition, just at the highest level, these ingredients and all the chemicals we can't name that are in ultra-processed food are not natural ingredients that our bodies are made to handle. So there's, as we talk about in Good Energy, this produces a lot of side effects to ourselves. The food industry isn't trying to kill Americans. They're trying to make food cheap and addictive. And what I learned in the morning meeting with the food company, it's trying to lobby and influence the USDA being the lifeblood of nutrition research paying off. Nutrition research at Harvard and Stanford as a junior employee, shocked by that.

Tucker Carlson: So you saw that?

Calley Means: Oh, my first week as working for these industries. It was a list of top professors. The food industry pays 11 times more for foundational nutrition research than the NIH. You go to in a nutrition school in the country, the lifeblood of their school, they'll probably admit this is from the processed food industry. In the past two years, there's been 50,000 peer-reviewed research studies on nutrition. We're the only animal that has peer-reviewed nutrition studies, and we're the only animals that are systematically obese, diabetic, and being crippled by metabolic dysfunction. We're born with an innate sense of knowing what's right for us. The problem, very strategically, and this is well known among the industry, is the ultra-processed food does, because they're able to do this science experiment with their food, it hijacks our biology, hijacks our satiety signals. High fructose corn syrup, fructose, it makes us want to eat more because in the wild, when you see a bunch of fruit out there, you're well-advised to eat it, historically. We've basically rigged our biology to hijack our signals that make us satiated. So that's what ultra-processed food does. So that's the food industry, okay? The food industry, actually, with their own set interests, want to make food addictive and cheaper.

Tucker Carlson: It makes sense.

Calley Means: The criminal devil's bargain is that it's highly tied to the health care industry. And as Casey said, the fastest-growing industry in America right now isn't AI. It's not tech, it's health care. It's the largest and fastest growing industry. And just as a statement of economic fact, the best thing for that industry is a child getting sick. When a child gets sick or any American gets sick with a chronic condition, with diabetes, obesity, kidney disease, heart disease, whatever, they go on a lifetime medication. They go on the metformin, they go on the statin, they have lifetime treatments, and they keep racking up more comorbidities. If you're diabetic, you have an average of four other comorbidities. So you keep racking up, but you don't die, you just suffer. You inevitably get infertility, depression. You start racking them up. So that's very good for the medical system to have these chronic conditions that need to be managed just from a pure economic standpoint. That's how the system is set up. That's all happening largely because of our food system and other metabolic habits we can talk about, but largely because of our rise of ultra-processed food that's really hacking ourselves and really hijacking ourselves.

The criminal part, the devil's bargain, is that the health care system, you'd expect to be speaking out about why we're getting so sick, but they're not only silent on the reasons. They're not only train Casey the first day of Stanford Med school that we're basically taken it as a given that people are lazy and going to get sick. We're just to profit from treating them. They're silent enough. They're actually complicit. Working for Coke, I helped steer money to the American --

Tucker Carlson: Coca-Cola.

Calley Means: Yeah, working for Coca-Cola, they actually pay money to the American Diabetes Association. They actually pay money to the American Academy of Pediatrics. If there's one thing the American Diabetes Association, which sets the standard of care for diabetes management, they should be doing. They should be saying, We're not going to accept money from Coke, which is diabetes water. They accept money from Coke.

Tucker Carlson: So there's no -- Well, that's like Tyson Chicken subsidizing PETA. Right. It doesn't make any sense.

Calley Means: It doesn't make sense.

Tucker Carlson: Wait, so can I... Okay, so... Okay, Thank you. You, Calley, work for Coca-Cola, you, Casey, are at Stanford Medical School, and both of you have converged on what I think is a evangelism. I say that as a compliment, and this book is the result of that. Can you just give us the baseline condition of health in the United States?

Caaey Means: Absolutely. The word I used earlier, destroyed, is not hyperbolic in any way, shape, or form. Seventy-four percent of American adults now are overweight or obese. Close to 50% of children are overweight or obese. 120 years ago, when someone was obese, there were case reports written about it. Yes. Literally, there were people in the circus if you had obesity.

Tucker Carlson: Sideshow fat. So unusual.

Caaey Means: Yeah, it was so unusual. Now, 74% of our country, 77% of young adults are unfit to serve in the military because of these issues like obesity. Now, let's talk about diabetes. A full 50% of American adults have prediabetes or type 2 diabetes, which is a fundamental issue in how ourselves --

Tucker Carlson: Half the country.

Casey Means: Half the country, Tucker, have prediabetes or type 2 diabetes, and 30% of teens now have prediabetes. This was a condition that no pediatrician would have seen in their lifetime 50 years ago. One percent of Americans in 1950 had type 2 diabetes. We have 18% of teens with fatty liver disease, a disease that used to be in late-stage alcoholics. Cancer rates are skyrocketing in the young and the elderly. Young adult cancers are up 79%. And this is the first year in American history, we're estimated to have over 2 million cases of cancer. 25% of American women are on an antidepressant medication. 40% of 18-year-olds have a mental health diagnosis. We have the highest infant and maternal mortality rate in the entire developed world, despite sending 2X on infant and maternal care than in either country.

So you have a higher risk of dying as a woman giving birth in America than any other developed country in the world. Autism rates in kids are one in 36 nationally. This was one in 1,500 in the year 2000, and the screening has not changed in California, where I lived.

Tucker Carlson: I just want to linger on that. The Training has not changed. In 20 years. So the definition hasn't changed.

Casey Means: No. One in 32 from one in 1,500. In California, one in 36. Right now, it was one in 1,500. In California, it's one in 22, one of the worst states in the country for autism. This is just a smattering --

Tucker Carlson: What the hell is that?

Casey Means: All of these conditions, and I could go on and on, autoimmune diseases, infertility is at peak rates. I don't know how this is not front page news. Infertility is going up 1% per year. Sperm counts are going down 1% per year since the 1970s. Sperm counts are down.

Tucker Carlson: Continuing to drop?

Casey Means: Continuing to drop. At an increasing rate.

Calley Means: Our bodies are crying out for help.

Casey Means: 26% of women have polycystic ovarian syndrome. Now, the thing that people need to understand is that all of these conditions are caused or driven by the exact same thing, which is metabolic dysfunction. This core foundational issue of how our bodies on the cellular level function, which is driven by our toxic food system and our toxic environment. These subtle insidious forces that are creating slow, progressive illness starting now in fetal life that allow patients to be profitable and on the pharma treadmill for their entire lives. They make us sick, but they don't kill us, and then we are drugged for life. You look at what's happening in children. A child born in a hospital in the United States today, within an hour of coming from source into this body, the first thing that happens to them is pharmaceutical intervention without really asking. I mean, there's barely informed consent about this. That child's eyes are smeared with erythromycin ointment, and they're given a hepatitis B vaccine in their first day of life. And what are these two things for? I mean, I mentioned this because it's just emblematic of how we were put on the pharma treadmill from the moment we are born in this country for reasons that are very strange.

The erythromycin ointment is to prevent chlamydial infections of the eye, which we test women for chlamedia. So why would every baby in the United States need this ointment if the mom doesn't have it? And the Hep B vaccine is for hepatitis B, which is a sexually transmitted disease, an IV drug user disease, of course, which babies are not going to be exposed to. And yet every single baby in America is getting the intervention. So from the literally the day we are born.

Tucker Carlson: Why not test the pregnant mother for those?

Casey Means: They do. They give to the women who, even if they have tested negative, they give it to the babies.

Tucker Carlson: Which would be the overwhelming majority.

Casey Means: Absolutely.

Tucker Carlson: So I don't understand why would you treat a child on his first day of life for illnesses you know for a fact he doesn't have, it isn't going to get.

Calley Means: So this is what I saw working for pharma. So let's get out of the passion of this debate and just talk about the economic incentives. Let's take the Hep B, okay? There's actually no dynamic in American capitalism like the vaccine schedule, because the second you get something on that schedule, the government's paying hundreds of billions of dollars for a product that's been mandated for every single American living. So I'm just speaking, again, let's not even get into the efficacy of vaccine.

Tucker Carlson: We're talking math here.

Calley Means: I'm talking math. Working with the pharma industry, it's a huge economic imperative to get more and more vaccines on the schedule. You couldn't watch the Olympics this past couple of weeks ago without seeing just ad after ad for actually new vaccines. This is big business, right? Hundreds of billions of dollars. And again, once you get it approved, what happens? It's paid for everyone, and you have the most trusted institutions in the world calling anyone a war criminal for even asking a question about it. So this is well known by the industry.

Tucker Carlson: And can I just say, so this will appear on all kinds of different social media platforms, but maybe the biggest is YouTube, owned by Google. And they will censor this. They will demonetize this video. Just so far, you have not attacked a vaccine, but you are showing evidence of some skepticism of their efficacy or the need for them. And YouTube will demonetize this video for what you just said. You're a Stanford-educated physician, but YouTube has decided you're not allowed to say this.

Calley Means: And I think this is such an important conversation because I'd ask everyone listening, if they can still listen to this, is why is YouTube, why is the media... By the way, YouTube and the media are heavily funded by Pharma. Pharma is the number one funder of mainstream news media and one of the largest funders just demonstrably, just factually. It's just a fact for YouTube ads. You can't watch a YouTube video without seeing Pharma ads. So just their funding and have a direct line. As we talked about this last time, we're looking for these industries. We paid tech companies, we paid media companies, not even to influence consumers, but to have a direct line to them. It's part of the public affairs strategy. We know that if we can fund a large part of YouTube's ad budget, we have a direct line communication to those companies. And then we have studies from Harvard that we've paid for, too, saying that it's anti-science to say anything that questions our products, which we can jam down the throats of the people that we now have a direct line of communication.

Tucker Carlson: So the direct line is not to consumers. That's of lesser concern. The direct line is to the media company, so you can effect censorship.

Calley Means: Just as, again, as an economic fact, 80% of an age, grants have a conflict of interest. There's very little conflict of interest rules for academic studies. So the game is clear. You fund the academic studies and you have the seal of Harvard, the seal of the NIH, saying that these products, these pharmaceutical products are perfect. And then you use those studies to influence the tech companies and the media companies that you've also paid and have a direct line of communication that there's misinformation. Let's get back to the B, but I just want to make one macro point. It's the selective outrage. Why are we so concerned about talking about vaccines? Why is it such an impetus from our trusted institutions that you are a horrible parent if you even ask a question about 72 shots to your kids? And why isn't there that level of urgency around childhood nutrition?

Tucker Carlson: Or childhood chronic disease.

Calley Means: Or childhood chronic disease. Why is it, oh, we can't possibly We can't possibly expect parents not to load their kids with a bunch of sugar and all these toxic ingredients. And by the way, those people can't afford whole food. It's actually racist in class, as Steven suggests, people should be able to afford organic food. We can't possibly expect parents to have non-toxic food. But when it comes to pharmaceutical interventions, there's no price too high. And if you don't follow it to a T, you're a terrible person. Why is it when we have nine out of 10 killers of Americans are preventable lifestyle conditions, when 95% of medical costs go towards reversible chronic conditions that Casey's talking about, why isn't there that urgency of the medical community educating parents about why people are getting sick? And really, the only vitriol, the only thing that's being censored, the only thing that's being enforced in the top down is absolute adherence to pharmaceutical products. Why during COVID, which was a metabolic condition, this was a disease that attacked weak immune systems. This was a disease that only killed people that were overweight or metabolic dysfunctional. Americans died at a much higher rate than European or Asian countries.

Why wasn't there the same emphasis on hardening up our immune systems and attacking the root cause of that? And it was all the air was around a pharmaceutical solution. This doesn't actually make sense, but it gets to the money. So working for the pharma companies, there's just nothing better than getting on the vaccine schedule. And that should not be a controversial comment. If you have a list of drugs that are mandated for every single American to pay for that government, you want to get on that schedule.

Tucker Carlson: Why don't it's a controversial comment? It's not allowed. It's a verbotim comment. You're not allowed to say that. They will demonetize this video for what you just said. What does that tell you?

Calley Means: I would ask the media companies and ask YouTube to have the same passion for childhood chronic disease and nutrition as they do for enforcing unanimity on pharmaceutical injections for kids.

Tucker Carlson: Amen. I couldn't agree more. It's infuriating. It's worse than that. It's evil. Again, video just demonetized. It's worth it. But let me ask, so to the specifics of the HEPV shot that... I'm sure all my four children had it. I didn't even know when it was.

Calley Means: We had it.

Tucker Carlson: We had it, too. Is there a... I mean, just take the other side for a second. Is there a reason that we would do this?

Calley Means: I pushed, and I welcome any doctor to respond this, I pushed leading medical experts on this. I'm like, Okay, so a child's born, let's just take this side, the child's born. Hep B is spread by two routes, sexually-transmitted disease or intravenous needles. So my one-day-old isn't going to be having sex or doing heroin right away. So what's the purpose of getting this on the schedule in the first day of life, the first hours of life? And if you push, and I welcome anyone to do this with their doctor, you get to two things. You get to the American patients are too stupid to remember, so we need to do it right away. That's literally what they say. And then my doctor told me that a child at daycare could trip over a needle that has hepatitis B on it. That's literally what they get to. That a needle could be on the playground, that somebody just did heroin or something, threw the needle down and it has hepatitis B blood on it. I asked the doctor, has there ever been in human history a case of hepatitis B being transferred that way? They said no.

It's only through intravenous needles and sex. So you actually, to just steel man this, and again, welcome any that respond, there is not actually a scenario, absent of intravenous needles or sex, that a person gets hepatitis B. There is not a reason for this to be given. But it happened, and I saw this, it was a huge investment for this vaccine. It was a huge, huge economic problem. And this shouldn't be controversial. Think about being at these drug companies. You want the drug given out when you've made the investment. So they're able to work with their buddies at the FDA. They're able to use the studies. There's this constant feeling in the medical community that the American people are too stupid to ask a question or too stupid to remember to take these important drugs. So there's this argument and momentum to get on the schedule day one. But no, there's not actually a medical --

Tucker Carlson: And we haven't even discussed. I mean, I think you have proven the point that there's no good reason. The flip side is, are there good reasons not to take it? So let me just ask you as a physician and a woman of childbearing age, what's your view?

Casey Means: I mean, there's not a single medication that exists that doesn't have side effects and where there's not some range of things that can happen when you inject something in the body. And for the happy vaccine, in particular, I mean, the two of the handful of inactive ingredients are formaldehyde and aluminum, which is a neurotoxin. And of course, they'll say, "Oh, for the body weight of the baby, it's negligible," whatever. But when you're getting several shots at one time, these things make a difference. Our bodies are overwhelmed right now with the amount of toxic inputs that are going in, and they're breaking our bodies. And so if it's not necessary for the vast majority of kids to have this at birth, and you could give it to them when they reach teenage years, and they're much bigger, and their bodies can handle more of these chemicals and toxins that are in these shots, then you have to ask yourself, why are we exposing the whole population to potential risk that any pharmaceutical medication will have a risk of side effects if it's not necessary? And that's a question that I think every parent should be able to ask.

But like Calley talks about, you follow the money. It's pretty sinister. I mean, you look at the American account of pediatrics and who are their main funders? Mead Johnson, who makes formula, the company that makes influenza vaccines, Abbott Nutrition, which makes formula. These people are funding the organization that cherry-picks the research to make our pediatric guidelines. There's hundreds of thousands of papers that are published every year about the importance of nutrition and exercise and sleep and avoiding pesticides and avoiding plastics in our foods. Just tens of thousands of papers every single year. But what goes into the guidelines, which are created by professional organizations like the American Diabetes Association, the American Account of Pediatrics, who are funded by things like process food companies, pharmaceutical companies, and then, of course, in the case of the ADA, people like Coca-Cola and Cadbury. People will always say --

Tucker Carlson: Cadbury, the chocolate company?

Calley Means: The chocolate company has funded millions for the American Diabetes Association.

Tucker Carlson: Come on.

Casey Means: Absolutely. This is just basic.

Tucker Carlson: I just want to say, because I don't want to ever sound judgy or pretend that I have good eating habits, because demonstrably, I don't. They make great chocolate bar. Sure. They know they're awesome.

Casey Means: But they shouldn't be probably influencing diabetes guidelines, right?

Tucker Carlson: Is that real? You're sure that's true?

Casey Means: I am certain that is true. We could all --

Calley Means: And I'm sure Busch shouldn't be funding Alcoholics Anonymous. It's just like, I don't...

Tucker Carlson: These companies should exist.

Casey Means: But we follow this cult of evidence-based medicine, which is that we follow the guidelines. But the guidelines cherry-pick research from the canon of scientific literature is out there, which is why when I was in medical school, there were just huge swaths of the science that I wasn't seeing.

Tucker Carlson: Can I ask a very fundamental question? Why would we follow the guidelines rather than the outcomes?

Casey Means: It's a great question.

Tucker Carlson: You just said five minutes ago, you were outlining this terrifying and sad and catastrophic series of stats describing the total collapse of public health in the United States. That's right. Who cares what the guidelines are? Doesn't anyone just zoom out for a second and be like, all these kids have diabetes, which leads to dementia. This is not working. Did no one say that?

Casey Means: Well, that's ... I mean, the question it's not working is the question I would basically put in front of every doctor in America. If you're not looking around you and just scratching your head and saying, what the hell is going on, then you are profiting off of this crisis. The most dangerous thing you can do in America right now, obviously, is ask the question why. So I understand --

Tucker Carlson: About anything?

Casey Means: About anything. But this is just a point to answer your question about why is this happening? Why aren't we following outcomes? It's institutionalized to not actually focus on outcomes because the business model of the healthcare system is volume. It's how many patients can you see, not what their outcomes are. We are paid for volume, not outcomes. Now --

Tucker Carlson: Did you see that as a surgeon?

Casey Means: I'm going... Yeah. So Absolutely. I mean, it's how many chart notes can you write and bill every day? That's why doctors are seeing 30 to 40 patients a day with 15 different diagnosis for each one. Obviously, you can't help that patient thrive and get healthier. All you can do is write them a prescription because we are paid for volume. And the unofficial mantra of all doctors --

Tucker Carlson: All doctors must know that.

Casey Means: The unofficial mantra of private practice medicine is you eat what you kill, which means you get paid, you eat for how much volume you can do, how many surgeries you can sell, how many people you can get through in and out of your office. Now, back in when Obamacare was coming about, which was really an utter failure, there was lip service that was paid to this idea of value-based care, which sounds great on paper. So value value is good outcomes over a lower cost. This sounds great. We'll get paid more as doctors if we have better outcomes over a lower cost. What is the highest value intervention you can do for a patient? Get them to eat healthy. Doesn't cost a lot, has incredible outcomes universally.

Get them to sleep, get them to exercise. We would have moved towards that. But even that was corrupted by corporate interest because how the doctor had to report on quality was through these metrics called MIPS, basically, merit-based incentive little criteria. Most of them were based on how many their patients were medicated. Instead of a doctor having to report quality as, I have a patient who got better, who got healthier. Which we expect. It was how much of the patient population was on long term medication. The actual good outcome was defined by medication adherence in a practice rather than is the patient reversed of their disease? Every disease I talk --

Tucker Carlson: So it wasn't the actual outcome.

Casey Means: It wasn't the outcome. The outcome ended up being how many of the patients took meds. So even with lip service to good outcomes, it's not a healthier cell. It's a medicated patient. Those are two different things. We did not learn that in medical school.

Tucker Carlson: Can I ask you, I mean, again, I don't want to get too personal, but what about the doctors that you were trained with or served under who trained you? I'm sure a lot of them are good people. I know all of them are smart.

Casey Means: Yes.

Tucker Carlson: The things that you're describing would be pretty easy for anyone with an IQ over 80 to notice. They not notice this? What is that?

Casey Means: There are several aspects to I think that because Med School is funded by Pharma, when I was at Stanford Medical School, we got a $3 million grant from Pfizer to revise our curriculum. And you can look up the articles from this time. It was around 2011. The grant was with no strings attached. They had no control over what the curriculum development was going to be. But if you're accepting $3 million from Pfizer, of course, it's going to have an influence on what we're learning.

Calley Means: And the dean received consulting payments as well.

Tucker Carlson: Actually?

Calley Means: Yeah. The dean, during her time, Philip was a pain specialist. Pfizer was one of the largest opioid makers, and he received direct consulting payments from opioid makers. And that year that they received that Pfizer grant, he was appointed, which I was actually involved with I was working for Pharma at the time, to an NIH panel to make opioid guidance with the version in crisis. He selected that panel. How can you have a more prestigious person: the dean of Stanford Med School. Nine out of the 19 people he selected were directly paid for with consulting payments from opioid companies. And that panel in 2011, 2012 recommended more relaxed opioid standards and said that the idea of addictiveness was overblown and led to an increase of the curve in opioid deaths. And we're talking a lot about the opioid crisis right now. JD Vance talking about it, what's just destroying Appalachian, in large parts of America. What people don't, I think, realize is that the majority of opioid overdose deaths started with a legal prescription. That's right. That's how it works. I was actually helping --

Tucker Carlson: It's hard to hear that and not, again, one doesn't want to be judgmental. However, that seems like criminal behavior to me.

Casey Means: For the doctors, all the education is just targeted towards having you just have one hammer, right? You have one hammer, which is your prescription pad in your surgery. You don't have any other tools in your toolbox, right? Because from the very beginning, from the very way that we're even taught about the body, it has been corrupted, right? It has been... It's rotten. It's rotten the way that it's wrong biologically, how we're thinking about the body. But you even look at the med school curriculum --

Tucker Carlson: Can you tell us really quick how?

Casey Means: Well, in the sense that we don't learn any... Eighty percent of medical schools don't have a single class on nutrition, and yet food is the cause of 9 out of 10 leading causes of death in the United States.

Tucker Carlson: So you were saying, but even to zoom out a little farther, you were saying at breakfast, you put it so well, of course, I can't remember it exactly. You were saying that medical education disconnects the body into its components but doesn't address it as a connected thing.

Casey Means: So this is the point that's going to potentially create insolvency in our economy and ruin us as a species, is this exact point.

Tucker Carlson: Not that the stakes are high.

Casey Means: Is that we have convinced people and doctors that the body is 100 separate parts. The body is one system, one unified system, obviously. Something happening in your toe can affect everywhere else in the body. And yet we have essentially brainwashed people and doctors to believe that specialization is king, right? What is the most prestigious doctor, right? It's someone who is hyper subspecialized. We basically diminish the value of primary care and pediatrics, these general specialties, yet someone who's a neuroautologist is at the peak of the --

Tucker Carlson: What is that?

Casey Means: It's literally someone who did my residency. So five years of head and neck surgery residency, and then two additional years just focusing on two square inches of the ear to focus on the ear, basically, and do surgery of the ear. That is the dean of Stanford. Right now, the dean of Stanford Medical School is a neuroautologist. So the more specialized you get, the more prestigious you get. And what this does is it creates a system in which we actually start to see the body as a hundred different separate parts, and we lose sight of how all of these things are connected.

We lose sight of the research that's telling us how all these diseases are connected, that the diabetes that's happening all your all over your body. Actually, we know that type 2 diabetes greatly increases our risk for hearing loss. But a neurotologist doesn't really want to think about that. They want to operate on the ear, right? And so you lose sight of the connections, and you get a patient in 15 different specialists' office. So many Americans are going through this right now, where you go to the primary care doctor with 10 issues, and you end up with 10 different referrals to different specialists. And no one has any education, time, or financial incentive to think about how all those diseases are related. So what you do is you have specialists reacting to the symptoms happening in different parts of the body rather than anyone understanding how to think about how it's all connected, which when you go down that road, when you start asking why, you realize it is extremely, extremely simple that all aspects of modern American society are rigged against the American patient to get us addicted to food, allegiant to pharma, and just spending 10 hours a day on our phones, addicted.

And now we are all sick. Our bodies are breaking, and it's leading to all these organ-specific symptoms that are related to a very simple root cause.

Tucker Carlson: Can I just press you just a tiny bit? You hate this, I know. Why did you come to that conclusion, and none of your colleagues did. I think it's really important to understand why certain people see obvious truths while everyone else, including smart people, are blinded to them. What about you allowed you to connect these pretty obvious dots?

Casey Means: Parenting.

Tucker Carlson: How? What did your parents do?

Casey Means: My parents, our parents focused on incentives. Incentives are everything. Incentives are why Americans are sick right now. If we change the incentives, we'd get healthy in two years. Our country would be the most competitive country in the world. My parents incentive in our family was to ask questions, not to have any stars or marks or anything. So what was celebrated in our family was sitting down at the dinner table in DC and asking questions and poking at ideas. We were celebrated for thinking about things in a bigger picture. That is not -- you talked about this with Tim Dylan on your recent podcast -- The Boomers. They just want the stars for their kids to just to get all these little badges. But that was not what was celebrated.

Calley Means: We developed our own compulsion to climb up the ladder, but it was always instilled, like ask questions.

Casey Means: Add value, ask questions, think for yourself.

Calley Means: We never felt actually like our parents were that happy with rising up. It was like, are we being good? People ask. And that was really instilled in us.

Tucker Carlson: Do they have a explicit moral center? Like, this is right, this is wrong.

Casey Means: I think they were very spiritual people. We were raised with spirituality. We were reading sacred texts and the Bible and Rumi and Ayn Rand and all these different things from a young age discussing it at the dinner table, thinking about philosophy. And so that was what was celebrated.

Tucker Carlson: So they were not conformists.

Casey Means: When I quit my surgical residency in my fifth and final year after hundreds of thousands of dollars in my education, my parents threw me a party. They were asked.

Tucker Carlson: No way.

Casey Means: They came --

Calley Means: No parent would do that.

Casey Means: No parent. And they never told me to quit. Hundreds of thousands of dad. Absolutely. They were so proud of me for coming to my own conclusions and seeing it. There's a lot of --

Tucker Carlson: Even though, so the incentive for parents, at least in DC, where I raise my children, is to tell people in your neighborhood, your friends, that you have a daughter who's a Stanford-educated doctor.

Casey Means: They never pushed us to go to Stanford. They never pushed us to even I never once, ever in our entire childhood, they said, "You need to go to your college counseling meeting," ever, ever. They were about having fun and thinking. They were older parents, too. My parents were in their 40s when they had us. They lived life. They were not living through us. They were spiritually grounded. They're not afraid of death. They aren't driven by the materialism that just makes you rack up a wall full of awards. It was about, are we being good people?

Tucker Carlson: You're making me emotional. It sounds like wonderful people.

Casey Means: That is the reason. That is the reason. I mean, there's privilege involved in it, too. Of course, we had financial backstop. A lot of my friends going to medicine, they were supporting their families, right? And I have so much respect for that. And the fact that people's options are limited. But doctors are in a trap. It's $500,000 of education. You have this guaranteed salary, and all you have to do is drink the Kool-Aid. All you have to do is stay heads down and not ask questions, not ask why. You can really feel good about your work. People are sick as hell in this country, and we do need people to be doing heart surgery or else people will die. But the thing that is so imperative for people to understand is that the reasons we're having surgery, the reasons why we're getting sick, the reasons why American competitiveness is plummeting, the reasons why our kids are chronically ill, half of the kids in America are chronically ill, are all from preventable issues. So if you're a doctor who's not spending any time on focusing on that, then unfortunately, for better or worse, you are bankrolling on the problem.

Calley Means: Do you remember when Eli --

Tucker Carlson: I honestly think you're going to change the world. I mean that. I mean that.

Casey Means: Thank you.

Tucker Carlson: Thank you. Just had to say that.

Casey Means: Thank you. Thank you for having us here.

Tucker Carlson: Oh, it's just So your description of your parents is... It brings me to tears. Oh, my gosh.

Casey Means: I cannot wait to have children. There is no greater role. There is no greater role in this world. I was told such a bill of lies, climb the medical ladder, become the chair of an institution. I can think no greater thing than we can do than have children and keep them healthy. And I just... Up until a couple of years ago, I didn't even want to have children because I thought it was a liability to this value system of just like, rise the ranks, make money. But I don't think there's anything more important we could be doing than creating healthy children who are thinking for themselves, who are eating healthy food. And I cannot wait for that role. And I think it's a spiritual corruption of our society right now that we have forgotten that this is the most important thing that we can do. It's unbelievable how far off we are. I think it is deeply a spiritual crisis because we have lost sight of what really matters in our lives.

Tucker Carlson: And you are singing my song, and much better than I ever could. So that is... Sorry. So completely carried away. I guess now is the time, since we're talking about your parents, tell us, and your brother and I have talked about this at some length. I know this is painful, but about your mother, her illness, how that affected what you're doing now.

Casey Means: Our mother was our best friend. This book is dedicated to her. I think my mom, she's the archetypal American patient. She's someone who was totally faithful to the American health care system, and like so many other Americans, was ultimately completely led down by it. She passed away far too early after 40 years of completely missed warning signs of the root causes of all the different symptoms and conditions she was racking up. She had me when she was 40. I was a humongous baby born at Sibly Hospital. I was almost 12 pounds. Calley was almost 12 pounds. And that's a huge baby. And there's actually a term for a baby over 8.5 pounds, which is fetal macrosomia, which portends metabolic issues in a mother and metabolic issues in the baby. And I had them. I was 210 pounds by the time I was in eighth grade. And my mom had trouble losing the baby weight, had a very tough menopause. In her 60s, got all the American diagnosis, high cholesterol. They gave her statin, high blood pressure. They gave her an AiSantibular. High blood sugar. They gave her metformin. Oh, this is normal. It's a rite of passage. Every American is getting these diseases.

So she went to all the specialists. She went to the cardiologist and the endocrineologist and her primary care doctor, got all these medications. And then she's 72 years old doing everything the doctors are telling her to do, taking the pills every single day. And she gets a diagnosis of... She had some belly pain one day, went to the doctor. It lasted for a few weeks. She got a CT scan: stage 4, widely metastatic pancreatic cancer. She was dead 13 days later. And she was seen at the best hospitals in the country. She was getting executive physicals at Mayo. She was being seen at Stanford and Palo Alto Medical Foundation. And they looked at us in the eye. They looked at us after her death and said, "Oh, my God, this is so unlucky." I knew enough at that time to know there was nothing unlucky about this. This was an entirely predictable sequence of events from the age of 40 to the age of 72.

Tucker Carlson: She had, as you've suggested, I think, every possible advantage. Clearly, high functioning person who followed the guidance, had the means to do it, had a daughter with specialty knowledge, a physician daughter. So she had every possible advantage.

Casey Means: Did every single thing they said and died at 72 in the prime of her life from conditions that were on the exact same spectrum. So every condition I mentioned earlier in this episode and every condition she had are on this metabolic disease spectrum.

Tucker Carlson: So you believe pancreatic cancer, specifically, if my memory serves, and I think it does, was an unusual, it was always famously dangerous, deadly.

Casey Means: Skyrocketing.

Tucker Carlson: I have noticed all of a sudden people, you know --

Casey Means: What are the risk factors? Obesity, diabetes, smoking. It is fundamentally a lifestyle disease. Pancreatic cancer. Why it is going up.

Calley Means: So is breast cancer.

Casey Means: Breast cancer. I mean, breast cancer is now one in eight women. This is an estrogen, often an estrogen --

Calley Means: It's a foodborne illness.

Casey Means: Estrogen-driven cancer. Well, where are all these extra estrogens coming from? Oh, huh? Maybe It's the 6 billion pounds of pesticides that are being invisibly sprayed on all of our food and poisoning it. And what are these pesticides doing? They're estrogen receptor agonists.

Tucker Carlson: Interesting.

Casey Means: Being sold to us from China and from Germany.

Calley Means: Which they're not using in their food there.

Tucker Carlson: So what does that mean? I'm sorry. I just want to make sure the science is clear because I don't really understand it. It's the effects of these chemicals on food is what?

Casey Means: So ostensibly, these chemicals are being used 6 billion pounds globally per year because of pest control. They're also being used on our children's parks and golf courses and all over the place. They're invisible, they're tasteless, and they are directly toxic to our cellular biology. So they're pesticides. 'Cide' is the word for the act of killing. So herbicides and such asides, fundicides. And they are so toxic that 20% of all suicides globally are performed by drinking pesticides. And yet we're told by our government that they're totally safe. This will shock you. But you look at... So the largest merger ever done in Germany was Bayer Monsanto, where Bayer, which is a pharmaceutical company, merged with Monsanto, which is an agrochemical company in the United States. If you look at what Bayer makes, they make cancer drugs for things like non-Hodgkins lymphoma. If you look at what Monsanto makes, which is Roundup, which is the most widely used pesticide in America, the cancer that it causes is non-Hodgkins lymphoma. They paid out $11 billion in the past couple of years for non-Hodgkins lymphoma cases. So the companies are merging that are directly known to cause the disease with a medical company that has a treatment for the disease. This is very, very dark.

And so, like Calley said, it's this revolving door between create the illness, treat the illness, and hide the science that tells us what's happening.

Calley Means: But this is all of the food industry wanting food cheaper. And we spend per capita half as much on food as they do in Europe, but we spend three times more per capita on health care. So my big point to everyone is this is not the free market at work. This is food companies lobbying to have neurotoxins and endocrine disrupting chemicals on our food that are toxic, that aren't allowed on any other food in any other developed country in order to make food a lot cheaper. And then to your point about what what is the... What do these chemicals do? It increases estrogen. And these kids are inhaling hormone disrupting chemicals. The New York Times recently had a front page article that puberty rates, particularly among women in the United States, are plummeting. People are hitting puberty younger. Years earlier. Younger. Girls are hitting puberty.

Tucker Carlson: How young?

Casey Means: The average girl in America is getting hitting puberty, which is sexual maturity, years earlier than they were in 1900. We have the earliest puberty rates of any continent in the world. It's age 10 to 13. And this is in large part thought to do because of we are literally giving children estrogen with all the plastics we're ingesting, which are xenoestrogens, meaning they are exogenous artificial estrogens, and the pesticides which can activate the estrogen receptors, like atrazine. I mean, you can put atrazine, which is a pesticide that we spray about 70 million pounds of in the US every year. It's not legal in Europe, but it's sold to us from international countries.

Tucker Carlson: It's not legal in Europe?

Casey Means: No, you cannot use it. You put this on a developing male frog embryo, and it turns into a female frog. That's how much of an endocrine disrupting chemical that it is. These chemicals not inert. Again, because we can cherry-pick science, and so much of these papers are PR papers paid for by industry. The Monsanto papers was a huge thing that, revelation, they had to declassify these documents that Monsanto had basically ghost-written scientific papers to say that these chemicals are safe.

Tucker Carlson: Can I just ask an obvious question? The incidence of transgenderism or whatever we're calling it have skywriters skyrocket, thousands of % increase in the last 10 years. And there are many threads to this. It's partly a political movement, social movement. But you wonder if it's not also a biological response to these chemicals. Is that possible?

Calley Means: I'll say this, just as a demonstrable fact, our child's environment is to an unprecedented degree full of hormone-disrupting chemicals. The assault on a child's cells and hormones is unrelenting right now.

Casey Means: Unrelenting. And their bodies are small. They can't handle it. You take a child and you put them on a screen for... The average kid is using a screen seven hours a day. Okay, and so this is hitting their dopamine. So that's one input. You've got, we're eating a credit card's worth of plastic per week, right? And these are hormone disrupting chemicals. All of our food is --

Tucker Carlson: How are we eating plastic in that volume?

Casey Means: Well, the plastic... Well, plastics are in everything now. They're in our air. They're our nanoparticles of plastic in the air we're breathing. They're in our water. They're covering every piece of food that we buy in the grocery store. You go to Europe, all the vegetables are just in these free markets. They're not packaged. In the US, you go to Trader Joe's, every single piece of food is covered in plastic. You've got the plastic water bottles. Every single can that we drink in the United States is lined with a plastic coating. Every single one, it's all getting in. And this can actually directly disrupt our mitochondrial function, which is the metabolic machinery of the cell. So microplastics actually can disrupt the way we make energy in the body. And we know that metabolic issues are the root cause of every chronic illness facing Americans today. You can't make this up. And then you have the endocrine. There's many effects of these things, but endocrine disrupting and mitochondrial disruption are two of the really big ones. Then you've got the kids eating 70% of their calories that a child is eating today is from a factory, industrially manufactured, ultra-processed foods.

We know that these foods are destroying our cellular biology. So it's really... And with school start times, kids are not getting enough sleep. So across sleep, across movement. The average kid is spending less time outdoors than a prisoner in America right now. Kids are not going outside. We're not getting the sunshine. Our circadian rhythms are destroyed. So every level of society, public school start times, are disrupting our food, our nutrients, our sleep, our stress and dopamine, our movement patterns, and our toxins. And we are getting destroyed.

Calley Means: And this is the visible hand. And we just have to understand this when we're thinking ... When you're thinking about health care policy. There's nothing more profitable than the sick child as I said, or really hijacking a kid's dopamine. Think about the trillions of dollars that are generated from a child's dopamine being hacked, being on that phone all day. It's not a good nor bad necessarily. It's just an economic fact. There's a huge incentive for that kid to be... Their chronic stress to be just triggered nonstop on that phone. There's huge profit for a child to be addicted to ultra-processed food and continuing to demand from their parents that food. There's huge incentive for a child to be sick and getting on the statins, which are doubled in prescription rates in high schools in the past 10 years, to get on the SSRIs that are now handed out like candy in high schools, to get on the metformin, to get on the Ozempic, which is now being recommended. They're pushing for six years old enough for if your child is overweight, lifetime prescription is epic. That's very profitable. So you have basically the free market at work.

I think capitalism is the greatest invention in human history. But just looking agnostically at the incentives, it's as many pills as we can give that kid, as much we can keep that kid in fear, as much as we can keep that kid sick without dying right away. That's what's fueling the largest industries in the country.

Tucker Carlson: This could go on 10 hours. Let's just stop with Ozempic really quick because Ozempic, and you and I had a pretty remarkable conversation about Ozempic, and at the end of it, I thought, well, that's never going to be popular because that's terrifying. I was wrong as usual, and now it is ubiquitous. Kids are taking it, college students are taking it. As a physician, what's your view of Ozempic?

Casey Means: I think it's very dark. I think it's a stranglehold on the US population, almost solidifying this idea that there is a magic pill. I mean, literally, the book by Yohanari is called Magic Pill. Convincing us that salvation from chronic health issues is going to be found in a shot when we are living in a toxic stew that's destroying our cellular biology. It's, of course, for certain patients, taking GLP-1 agonist is going to be helpful for their conditions. It might jumpstart their way to getting back to help.

Tucker Carlson: Is that the name of the active drug?

Casey Means: Glp-1 agonist. Yeah. So GLP-1 --

Tucker Carlson: Sorry, not fluent in this.

Casey Means: No, no. That's what the medications are. And so they're basically simulating a hormone that's made in our digestive system that cues satiety and does many other things. And so...

Tucker Carlson: Cues satiety is making us feel full.

Casey Means: Making us feel full. Making us feel full. Making us... And what's so interesting, we are, like Calley said earlier, we are the only species in the world that has an obesity and chronic disease epidemic. The only species in the world that has a chronic disease, an obesity epidemic because of ultra-processed food. You think about every other animal in the wild, they're eating real natural foods except for domesticated animals, which are also getting chronic diseases just like humans because they're eating our food. But every other animal, they're able to regulate their satiety. They're not eating themselves to death like we are. We're literally eating ourselves to death. The reason is because these foods, like Calley talked about with the cigarette companies and the scientists moving to create addictive ultra-processed foods, they are designed to subvert our satiety mechanisms like GLP-1 secretion, so that we never know that we're full. But if we were eating whole, real food, we would cue the exquisite satiety mechanisms in our bodies, and we would not over eat. If you're eating real, whole, unprocessed, nutrient-rich foods, we have receptors in our gut that make us feel full. It's not rocket science.

Tucker Carlson: You almost can't. If you eat just protein, which is hard.

Casey Means: Can't over eat.

Tucker Carlson: You cannot over eat.

Casey Means: No, that's right.

Tucker Carlson: You can't eat too much steak. It's not even possible.

Casey Means: And think about this. It's incredible. If you can convince people that this is not true, and defy the entire animal kingdom, what's happening with other animal, this could be on track to be the most profitable medication ever in human history. It will be if the powers be let it. And the unfortunate part is that it doesn't take our bodies out of the toxic stew that's crushing our biology. Yes, we may melt some fat, but we're essentially creating starvation to melt fat and muscle without changing any of the other lovers that we just talked about that are crushing our biology. So this is not the public health solution. You look at what's happening, though --

Tucker Carlson: Do you think there are potential downsides to it?

Casey Means: I mean, every medication has downsides, and this one has well-known side effects. It disproportionately causes lose muscle mass, which creates frailty, which is one of the things that can cause people in all age to have very poor quality of life and early death. It has a higher rate of thyroid cancer. It has risks on the label of kidney dysfunction, of pancreatitis, of all sorts of things. Every medication has side effects.

So if we're going to mass prescribe this... So there's a bill right now in Congress, HR 4818, which is the Treat and Reduce Obesity Act. You look at this and you think, "Oh, this is great." The government's focusing more on obesity, and this is awesome. There's one line that all that matters in that, which is that they want to expand Medicare access to include coverage for obesity medications, which are these drugs, for people that include overweight and obese. That is 74% of the population. If this bill goes through and everyone who is eligible for this drug gets it paid by taxpayers, that will represent over $3 trillion per year in drugs to the American people without changing any of the root causes of what is making us sick. And to add insult to injury, this will be taxpayer money being largely funneled to Europe who makes the drug. So people need to make --

Calley Means: Which [Eurpeans] don't prescribe. It's 10 times less expensive, and it's not the standard of care. There in Norway when you are obese.

Tucker Carlson: Is that where it's made?

Calley Means: Yeah. There's a step ladder and you get the keto diet and exercise incentivized from the government.

Tucker Carlson: In the country that makes us sick.

Casey Means: The American Academy of Pediatrics, in their most recent obesity guidelines, are recommending these drugs for kids as young as 12.

Calley Means: And pushing for six.

Casey Means: This is a lifelong medication at the cost of about $1,500 a month with many side effects that does not change any of the root causes issues that are toxifying It's literally destroying our brains and body.

Tucker Carlson: Can I ask? As you've said three times, and I hope you'll say three more, every drug has side effects. But they seem intentionally downplayed in a lot of cases -- most famously with certain COVID-related medicines. But there are others where they just don't really want to talk about, doctors don't seem to want to talk about the potential side effects. Why is that?

Calley Means: Because if you have an obese patient --

Tucker Carlson: It's weird.

Calley Means: Okay, let me just paint the picture. They're pushing for six, obese or overweight. Six years old. Yeah, we have obviously an obesity crisis among six-year-olds right now in the country. In Japan, the child obesity rate is three percent. In the United States, 50% of teens -- This is uniquely American. 50% of teens are overweight or obese. So let's just look at that. We're clearly just force-feeding into our children toxic food that's causing this massive issue. And now, any parent watching, particularly lower income, because this bill is pushing for Medicaid. So if you're a lower income, so why are they lobbying? Why is this company in Scandinavia one of the five largest lobbying spenders in America and pushing so hard for this? And why is the stock so high? And it's the 12th most valuable company in the world. They're expecting 80 to 90% of their profits from the United States from the government by rigging an institution. What institution are pharma companies rigging? They're actually rigging They're actually profiting off poor people. Medicaid is spending more on mitochondrial dysfunction than the entire US defense budget and growing much faster. This is a --

Tucker Carlson: Mitochondrial dysfunction.

Calley Means: Various metabolic issues. Metabolic issues. This core cellular dysfunction. We're spending on Medicaid more on preventable metabolic chronic conditions than the defense budget. And Medicaid is one of the fastest growing items in the budget. That's all rigged by Pharma as a piggy bank. So this bill, if you put Ozempic on that schedule, then any lower income six year old, the doctor can say, I've got Harvard studies here saying that obesity is genetic. It's not your child's fault. Let's get them a lifetime jabs.

Tucker Carlson: Well, if it's genetic, why didn't it exist 100 years ago?

Calley Means: Good question. But Harvard and the NIH and the American Academy of Pediatrics are saying it's a brain disease. It's genetic. And on 60 Minutes, as we talked about, a leading Harvard physician, Fatima Cody-Stanford, said that throw willpower out the window. This is a genetic condition. And it's actually, she said an affront in classes and racist to suggest it's anything other than genetic. So that's the message being told from medical system. You ask why? Because the second you can get that six-year-old on a lifetime injection, and let's just take this to every drug, it's the chronic disease treadmill. They're told that injection is a savior, right? And then the government, it's the largest line item in our budget. It's going to bankrupt the country. It's growing faster than any other line item in the budget, right? And Medicaid, the government is going to pay for that lower income kid, $1,500 a month because the government also has to just pay the sticker price. We're paying our sticker price is 10 times more expensive than Germany. So the second you get something on the Medicaid schedule, then all lower income people are open season. And what's so criminal about this, and what's so representative of why this is a problem, is that the medical system is saying, they're saying it's a social justice issue.

It's a moral issue. We have to pay $1,500 for 74% of US adults who are overweight or obese per month. We have to find the money. The stock is the 12th most valuable company in the world. I have an expectation that the US is going to say that. But where is that urgency from the medical system about why this stuff is happening in the first place, why it's not happening in Japan? Where's the urgency on saying, Hey, parents, maybe we shouldn't feed our kids toxic food. Maybe we It should be looking at the root cause of obesity. This is the key point. Forget any public policy. The medical leadership should just say the truth. They should explain why there's an obesity crisis among children. It's not a Ozempic deficiency. It's because of very simple inputs to our metabolic environment, and frankly, a rig system where our food has been compromised. There's nothing conservative or liberal about our food system being compromised.

Tucker Carlson: I couldn't agree more. It's not for sure.

Calley Means: The medical system before any public policy should simply Really state that. A key point in America is that we listen to our medical leaders. We changed our diet when the food pyramid came out. We smoking rates plummeted when the Surgeon General Report came out.

Casey Means: The majority of Americans got the COVID vaccine.

Calley Means: When Dr. Fauci said, get the vax, most people... We respect and listen, but medical providers, they actually literally have social justice components where they're actually not able to recommend natural food because there's a component in the USDA Nutrition Guidelines which takes into account social justice. So they're worried about affordability.

Tucker Carlson: May I ask, what does that mean? So it's racist to eat non-poisonous food?

Calley Means: In America, it is classist and racist to suggest that mothers shouldn't be poisoning their kids. Yes, that is what the USDA argues.

Tucker Carlson: So it seems like yet another example, there are so many of them, and you've talked about them when you were lobbying for Coke, of the richest people in the society, the ones who are looting the society, using issues like racism or sexism or classism as cudgels to beat back criticism of their looting.

Calley Means: Right. The indelible ACP is a registered lobbyist for Ozempic. Today.

Casey Means: There are registered -- The part that makes us scratch our head is like, how are we so delusional that we think it is easier to inject a child weekly for life, then find a way to get that child healthy food. That is the track that we're on right now. That is insane. But we're believing it. We're drinking that Kool-Aid . It doesn't make any sense. We could take these dollars so simply, so easily, and funnel them towards healthier diet and lifestyle. $3 trillion a year? We could feed every single American family with organic food for $3 trillion a year. But instead, we're taking those health care dollars and steering them towards drugs, which doesn't fix the root cause issue.

Calley Means: Our message isn't drug or anti-drug. It's just like, let's look at the problem. Say you're just an alien that came down from space. You look at America, kids and adults are just overwhelmingly metabolic, dysfunctional, obese, diabetic. It's like you never say, let's have this keep happening and then jab everyone and drug everyone and manage the condition. It was just never... It's just follow the science. Maybe drugs actually do come into play there. But the history of chronic disease medications has been a complete disaster. We always say, if you have a gunshot wound, an emergency surgical need that's going to kill you right away, complicated childbirth infection, 100%. The medical system is a miracle.

Casey Means: Acute issues.

Calley Means: Chronic disease medications didn't exist before 1960. The first one was the birth control pill. The first pill that you took for more than a couple of weeks that didn't cure the issue. It's the right way, ever. So in 1960, zero percent of the medical budget was on chronic conditions. Well, we can talk about that. But zero percent was chronic conditions. Today, 95% of spending is on chronic conditions because what the system realized is that they can take the trust engendered after World War II with antibiotics and various medical innovations that helped win that war and then steer it towards chronic conditions. So by the 1970s, 30% of women in the United States were on Valium, a highly addictive drug.

Tucker Carlson: Physically addictive.

Calley Means: Yeah. And It's just been a battle to shift the medical system to chronic disease.

Tucker Carlson: Can we just go to the pill really quick? I just want to say upfront that I'm Protestant. I never had a problem with birth control. Never thought about it, but at all. That's my position or has been my position, which is actually radically changing as we speak. But I've always felt that way. I never really thought about it. But I always noticed that you were not allowed to criticize the pill, period. That was not allowed in the world you and I grew up in. You could have all kinds of cookey opinions. You cannot criticize the birth control pill. And now I feel like maybe we were played a little bit. You're laughing sardonically.

Casey Means: I can speak as a physician, but I can also just speak as a woman. Yes. Who has taken all these different medications because it's liberation. It's liberation. We can do whatever we want. Who needs to get a period when you can work in the hospital 100 hours a week and put off having... And then I freeze my eggs at 37 and have kids. So as a woman, I mean, I do think, of course, these drugs have helped in some ways, but we are prescribing them like candy. We're prescribing them for acne. We're prescribing them for PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome, the leading cause of infertility in the United States, which is a metabolic issue, driven by our food and how the food interacts with genetics. And then, of course, for birth control. So you've got these medications that are literally shutting down the hormones in the female body that create this cyclical life-giving nature of women. We basically told women, these hormones don't matter. Your ability to create the most miracle of any miracles, which is create life, just shut it down. There's no impacts. That's crazy to me. And as I've woken up from this, I realized your cycle and having these hormonal cycles is part and parcel with our health in every possible way and also with the miracle of creating life.

And so for years, you just lose the biofeedback of what's happening with your cycle. It is one of the key barometers of female health. How is your cycle doing? Is it regular? Is it heavy? And we just shut it down and say there's no repercussions for that, which I think gets to a larger issue, which is a disrespect of life, right? It's a disrespect of things that create life. I think about you've got the pill, and it just goes hand in hand with the rise, and this is going to seem a little far out there, but it goes rise and rise with the hand of industrial agriculture, the spraying of these pesticides, the things, the ones that give life in this world, which are women and soil. We have tried to dominate and shut down the cycles. We have lost respect for life, which again gets to the spiritual crisis.

Tucker Carlson: Keep going. I love this. You are speaking truth right now. I can --

Casey Means: For the sake of efficiency, for this delusion of short term gains for yields, for profit. But what we need to realize is that we live in an interdependent ecosystem that has to be harmonious, not dominated, which means gentler. And so by taking hammer to women's hormones, taking a hammer to pests, what we've done is we've essentially, we are destroying the things that give us life in this country. And that is why, that is, I think, part of the root cause of why things feel so dark right now because it's bigger than all of this. We are actually turning our back on life.

Tucker Carlson: Does it surprise you that all of this happened within 20 years of developing the atom bomb?

Casey Means: No. And I mean, speaking of that, I mean, I think it's really interesting to think about the relationship between war and what's happening. 100%. So where did all these pesticides that have destroyed our life-giving soil and are creating a fragile food system, which is going to create a food crisis at some point, where did they all come from? Nazi Germany, right? So Hitler was developing chemicals of war and trying to create agriculture solutions to create more food yields for Germany. And some of these pesticides, these organophosphate chemicals, were turned directly into sprays that were putting on all our food. The interrelationship between Nazi Germany and what's being sprayed on every piece of food in the United States is deeply linked, and we need to think about that.

Calley Means: 15% of high school...

Casey Means: One other thing I just want to say, this is being federally subsidized by the government through the farm bills. We haven't spoken about the farm bills, but you think about this funneling of money that's happening and how the government, in a way, is working against us. I don't think it's nefarious at all. I think people just don't understand. We've talked to so many Congress people. They just don't understand the health effects of all these things that are happening, of the processed foods. Everyone likes their Oreo, so It's a tough issue because we're addicted. But the farm bills are making all these unhealthy foods cheaper. They federally subsidize commodity crops, which are turned into processed food. So this is the corn, the soy, the wheat, making these foods artificially cheaper. So this is why people say, and this is where the social justice piece comes into it. It is in many ways, it is much harder as a poor American to buy food that is not poisoned because our government is making the poisoned food cheaper. What is happening? We don't even-

Calley Means: It's not a free market.

Casey Means: It's not a free market at work. This is not a free market. It's a rigged market. It's rigged. It's rigged against poor people. And so there's nothing conservative about what's happening.

Calley Means: And President Trump is calling this out. Our case, obviously, is calling this out. But calling out a rigged market is not an attack on the free market. We need to speak truth here, particularly when it's impacting human capital.

Tucker Carlson: But calling out a rigged market is a call for a free market.

Calley Means: It's imperative. And working for these companies, we actually use that argument. You rig the market and then yell, "Nanny state" whenever anyone questions the rig market and the fact that there's more agriculture subsidies that go to tobacco than fruits and vegetables. 0.4% of agriculture subsidies go to fruits and vegetables. 2% goes to tobacco, 90% goes to ultra-processed food, and it's highly slanted against small farmers. This gets dark. I mean, talking about the Nazis, 15% of --

Tucker Carlson: Well, I mean, it's just I do think it's not accidental that that was a regime based on cult practices that hated Christianity and whose signature act, which no one ever seems to remember, it was murdering hundreds of thousands of Germans in hospitals through euthanasia.

So-called mercy killing of kids and adults who were standard. So, yeah, does it surprise you that atomic weapons and poison pesticides both came from that regime? No, not really. Well, also, if I'm sorry. That's just all true.

Calley Means: Today, 15% of high schoolers on Adderall. Adderall was created by Nazi Germany. I'm aware. Yeah, this There's a great book called Blitz about this, but Merck developed the precursor Adderall in order to give the German soldiers, so they got one pill a day. Actually, it was discontinued by the end of the war because there was such psychosis among the German soldiers taking this every day. It was to make them more aggressive. They actually reformulated it Merck and made a stronger version, and that is Adderall, which is now given to 15% of children. And this idea that many parents watching, just as Ozempic is being pushed on their kids, just as SSRI is being pushed on their kids, just as Sandoz are being pushed on their kids, parents being crudgled with medical studies saying they're putting their kid at risk for not following this medical guidance. They're also, if their kid is a little bit distracted, sitting in a sedentary environment with limited sunlight, being force-fed, ultra-processed food, they're getting a little fidgety, and they're prescribed Adderall right away. That's the standard of care. Not even thinking about... Think about any animal you put in a cage, low sunlight, sedentary, force-feeding, ultra-processed food.

Tucker Carlson: That's what we do with prisoners.

Calley Means: Just as a societal level here, we're really committing mass child abuse in many ways, and we're normalizing that, and we're not speaking out about that. And then we're giving people stimulants developed by Nazi Germany. I mean, it's crazy. That's much more profitable. I mean, from a pure economic standpoint, getting a kid off of this treadmill costs millions of dollars. A diabetic person on Medicaid If they're diabetic by the time they're 30, they're getting millions of dollars. They're generating millions of dollars paid for by the government to pharmaceutical and health care companies. Millions of dollars. If you train a lower income person and talk to them about metabolic health, frankly, reading the principles Casey talks about in the book, and they're going on a path of thriving, of understanding with their family what they're putting in their bodies of movement. They're costing the system millions of dollars. That's how the economic reality of how the system works on it. That's the battle. Getting to your point about how people let this happen on doctors, I think the brilliance of the systemic design is the most revered people in our society are basically able to keep up this system.

They're able to have their fancy studies that really just take responsibility for managing the disease instead of curing. They censor. I had a call when I attacked the dean of Tufts Nutrition School, the most prominent nutrition researcher in the country, Dario Shmoza Farian. He called me and actually threatened to call Paul Stanford, where we both went. He said, "We know the same people at Stanford. This is not right to be upsetting the apple card." I said, "Well, does your school not take the majority of its funding from food companies to impact nutrition policies in the United States?" He said, "Of course we do, but that doesn't impact my judgment. The fact that you're calling that out and the fact that you're questioning the study that we conducted with the NIH that said lucky Charms were healthier than beef. The fact that you're calling this out really isn't polite. This isn't how it works, Calley. We know the same people at Stanford, and this isn't polite. I'm going to call Stanford ..." and basically threatening me to be kicked out of the club. That's how this works.

Casey Means: And then these studies are used to create, influence the USDA guidelines. 95% of people on the USDA Nutrition Guidelines for America, 2020, 2025, had a conflict of interest with food companies. These studies are used to influence what the USDA is basically saying can go in school lunches. The USDA controls the US School Lunch program, which serves three billion meals per year to students. It's largest fast food chain in America is the USDA School Lunch program. And just this past year, Kraft Heinz is brokering deals with the USDA to put lunchables in schools.

Calley Means: It's the top growth area for Kraft is lunchables.

Tucker Carlson: What's a lunchable?

Calley Means: It's the process --

Casey Means: Plastic, square -- with ham, cheese, and crackers. That's going to be the school lunches. And these corporate deals are happening. And it's studies like this that then allow --

Tucker Carlson: I'm assuming lunchables are --

Casey Means: They're not good. They're not good. You look at the ingredients, there's about 60 ingredients in these packages. There's no fruit, there's no vegetables. It's literally processed flour, processed sugar, processed oil. It's just these staples of the American ultra-processed food system that are just rotting children's brains and bodies.

Calley Means: Would you believe, right, today, and I think this is one of the most criminal we talk about, we can change. Today, the USDA, which sets the standards that impact schools, that impact parents' perceptions, everything. They say that a healthy diet for a two-year-old is up to 10% added sugar. They're recommending added sugar for two-year-olds when we have a metabolic health crisis, a childhood obesity crisis, and where 33% of young adults now have prediabetes, which would have just been absolutely unthinkable. There's an assault on children's cells because of our food. Added sugar is a huge one. And the USDA recommends it. But imagine, and this is just so simple, if medical leaders actually had courage, if we had the volume and the urgency of our medical community talking about the COVID vaccine, about the childhood chronic disease crisis, not banning sugar, not banning anything, but just from a medical perspective, saying it's probably a good idea to relook at what we're feeding kids in the midst of a metabolic health crisis, and probably sugar should be discouraged. They don't say that right now. The USDA just put a report out saying a diet 93% in ultra-processed food for kids could be healthy.

The USDA is doing marketing for ultra-processed food. They're not speaking in a clear voice because Because 95% of the advisors on the committee are corrupted. 40% of the advisors that President Biden has already put for the next committee are paid for by the maker of Ozempic. Why do we have a huge chunk of the USDA Nutrition Guideline Committee paid for by Ozempic? You'll have to unpack that one for me.

Tucker Carlson: A foreign drug maker.

Casey Means: Then you've got Jason and Travis Kelly doing brokering. You might have seen they're now endorsing a new cereal blend with General Mills. Every mainstream media outlet is with them basically, basically laughing about how great this is. They're not talking about this metabolic disease epidemic that's destroying our children. They just turn a blind eye to any of the problematic nature of this because, of course, their funding, ad funding comes from Pharma and Food.

Tucker Carlson: Can I ask, so you all are focused on children, which is indisputably the right thing. But for people my age, maybe even your age, watching someone you love die from dementia, from Alzheimer's, universally regarded as the worst thing, just the worst thing. It seems to me the incidence of dementia is rising. Am I imagining that? If it's true, why is it happening? What can be done?

Casey Means: It's going up rapidly. It's happening in younger people. We're seeing Alzheimer's in people as young as 50. There are no drugs that actually reverse the disease. There are no good drugs for Alzheimer's, and we know --

Tucker Carlson: Still?

Casey Means: Still. There are no drugs. There are drugs that slightly slow the progression but do nothing to reverse the disease. And research from top journals in the world, like The Lancet, have explicitly stated that it is modifiable lifestyle factors that drive the development of this disease. Things like healthy eating, smoking, and moving, and exercise. These are the best possible way we could prevent Alzheimer's in this country is by people getting up and moving more, eating unprocessed organic food, not smoking. Unfortunately, you never hear that. This is a largely preventable disease that is skyrocketing right now.

Tucker Carlson: Alzheimer's is largely preventable.

Casey Means: Largely preventable, Alzheimer's. Alzheimer's with simple free lifestyle habits. Right now, Alzheimer's, dementia, many research are calling it type 3 diabetes. Okay, we have type 2 diabetes, type 1 diabetes, type 3 diabetes, because there is such a link between metabolic dysfunction and the development of the disease. And you think about it, it makes a complete obvious sense. The brain is 2% of our body weight, but it uses 20% of our energy because it's like a computer. It's high processing power. It's using tons of energy to make all these billions of neurons work. So 20 % of our body's energy, metabolic dysfunction, is a problem with how our body makes energy because our cells are destroyed by our food in our environment. So you have a problem in the body systemically, diabetes or prediabetes, that's an overt representation of our body is not making energy properly, that is going to disproportionately affect the brain. An underpowered brain is going to not be able to think properly. And that's what's happening in Alzheimer's. There's a neuro energetic theory of Alzheimer's that creates the downstream issues that we talk about, like the plaques in the brain and things like that.

These are responses to a fundamental issue with how the brain is powering itself. So we need to just all wake up and realize we need to support the cells of the body with the simple evidence-based habits that let us be metabolically healthy so our brain has the energy to do its work.

Tucker Carlson: Is there... So if dementia or Alzheimer... I mean, there are many forms of dementia, correct?

Casey Means: Yes.

Tucker Carlson: Okay. But if at least the big one is caused by metabolic dysfunction, is it conceivably reversible or slowable with changes to behavior?

Casey Means: There are amazing researchers like Dr. Dale Brettison, Dr. David Perlmutter, many others who have shown that we can reverse the symptoms of Alzheimer's with a healthier lifestyle. Dr. Dale Brettison, who wrote The End of Alzheimer's, which everyone should read.

Calley Means: It's the most effective reversal protocol ever conducted.

Tucker Carlson: What is it?

Casey Means: He talks about how there's not one thing here, right? It's a breaking of the cells, and that can happen from a lot of different things in our environment. So he talks about like 36 holes in the roof that basically have to be plugged for the rain to stop pouring into the house, right? So it's not just one thing. It's we've got to check our vitamin D levels. We've got to check our insulin levels. We've got to get our B12 levels, right? There's all these things that we know affect the cellular biology of our brain. Essentially, when you overwhelm the body too much and undernourish it, there's going to be breakdown. And so we have to examine each of these factors that we know is linked to dementia and then fix each one. And the path for you might be different for me, right? Some of those 36 factors might be fine in you, but not fine in me. And we might have different ones. So that's why personalized medicine is so important because we have to understand it's from all aspects of our environment that our cells are getting hurt. So we have to realize through testing and personalized medicine, which in our body are causing the problems.

But by and large, the simple reality is if we're eating nutrient-rich wholefoods, moving our bodies, getting enough sleep, staying intellectually stimulated, not smoking and avoiding toxins, our cells are going to do a much better job of doing work.

Calley Means: The first chapter of when we get into plans is really guiding, Casey guides through a list of how to read blood tests. I got on a path a couple of years ago when I had my regular cholesterol test. They said I was perfectly fine, showed a tertiary, like this is blaring metabolic dysfunction. I go back to my doctor and they're like, "Oh, yeah, it's really bad, but you're not treatable yet. You're not ready for a stat." And so we just say you're fine. Like a key thing is actually --

Tucker Carlson: Seriously?

Calley Means: Yeah. So you get to treatable levels. And then when you everyone... But we're brewing metabolic dysfunction. Everyone, especially people in 20s, 30s, and 40s that are healthy, are brewing metabolic dysfunction. They're brewing those things. But my mom was told she was healthy by her primary care provider months before the cancer diagnosis because she was on five medications, which is less than the average American her age. These are all rites of passage. So I wasn't quite at the statin level. So a key thing, and we arm this with the book, just with the free blood test, and then there's new services, this personalized medicine revolution where you can get 100 blood tests.

Companies like Function Health, or you can go to a functional medicine doctor who can order these tests. It's just a couple of hundred bucks. You can get more of a personalized view, and then you can attack those deficiencies with food and with supplementation and get the root cause of things under control. To our point in the book is that dementia is on the same... It's a branch of the same tree as diabetes, as heart disease, as kidney disease, of even dying of COVID. These are all very similar things. If you can cure the root, if you can understand. So a lot of our advice would just be, work through the personalized blood test, understand what's happening to you, and then match those nutrient needs with your food and with your supplementation to cure what your blood test is telling you. And if you get your metabolic biomarkers more under control, you're able to reverse and absolutely prevent most of the conditions that are plaguing the American people that have really only become new phenomenons in the past generation. It's all rooted in the same thing. And that's really what our big mission is. It's like we need actually a new paradigm of how we view chronic disease.

I mean, it's actually it's just a lie, right? That if you have a high cholesterol, high blood sugar, and depression, you're seeing three different doctors who aren't talking to each other at all. That's just wrong. It's very profitable, but it's wrong. You're on three different lifetime plans. You can really solve it with the root cause. And that's if the medical system was sane, right, with lower costs and unlease human capital. We're debating on the margins right now on the left and the right about how to change page 300 of Medicare Part D. Unless we're attacking the core incentive that was embedded by Obamacare, which was probably the deadliest law passed in recent history. What Obamacare did is it ingrained the incentive that the medical system makes more money when people get sicker. Through this populist idea of taking on the insurance companies, it said insurance companies can only make a 15% profit margin medical loss ratio. They need to pay out 85% of their spending. But because now insurance companies can only get 15%, but by law, in trying an Obamacare, they can raise premiums to get that 15%, what's their incentive?

Your incentive is for the pie to grow. Your incentive is for costs to go up. So Obamacare actually incentivized insurance companies to have no cost controls. What does no cost controls mean? It means more people getting sick. So we're talking about inflation a lot right now. By far, the top driver of inflation in America right now is health care. And that's happening because there's no reign on costs. There's no reign on costs because everyone makes money when we get sicker.

Casey Means: That's how it all connects. Even insurance companies. That's how it all connects. So if 85% of their budget has to go to care, they take 15% by law from Obamacare. The more that we spend actually on health care, the more expenditures for patients, the more their 15% grows.

Tucker Carlson: That's crazy. I mean, in a functioning system, of course, insurers would have the greatest possibility.

Casey Means: We're not here.

Calley Means: Obamacare out of a populist, we're going to cap their profit margins. But they lobbied, again, they can raise prices to get that 15%. So there is zero, and I mean this, every single institution that impacts our health, insurance companies, pharma companies, hospitals, medical schools. They make more money when more Americans are sicker for longer periods of time, and they lose money when Americans get health.

Tucker Carlson: It's just absolutely interesting.

Calley Means: That's the incentive. And then you go to Medicaid, which I talked about. There's just a huge incentive for more and more poor people to get sick because that's an annuity then to the Pharma companies. So until you attack that incentive, and as Casey said, people just don't understand this. Everyone makes sense. Actually, I think these things are very easy to change. But the problem is that it's a mind that there's profit when people are sick, and then they use the Stanford and the Harvard and the A.H. It's all this fancy club where people... It's like uncouth to talk. It's so marginalized when you talk about nutrition among... Wimpified. It's wimpified. It's like, Casey was yelled at by an attending surgeon. You didn't go to nutrition school. Don't talk to your patients about what to eat. We do serious medicine. We commit surgery.

Casey Means: And it's not in the guidelines.

Tucker Carlson: If they're doing serious medicine, then why are the outcomes getting worse?

Calley Means: Because they're not responsible. Because they're not responsible.

Tucker Carlson: Why, if life expectancy going down.

Calley Means: They're not paid for good outcome. The life expectancy is the tip of the iceberg.

Tucker Carlson: Yeah, no, I'm aware.

Calley Means: The underlying is just mass suffering, particularly among kids. I mean, this rapid increase in child to diabetes. If you have diabetes by the time you're 30, you die 15 years younger and you're suffering much more along the way. And now it's getting to almost the majority of young adults are prediabetic. So diabetes is not an isolated condition. It's cellular dysfunction, as Casey talks about in the book. It's the root of so many other things.

Tucker Carlson: Okay, so let's ... At breakfast when you were saying, and this is not our first conversation, you said, I'm going to make this positive. I called my brother last night, and I was like, you got to come to breakfast with the Means. It's because it'll radicalize you, which you successfully did in about an hour. So I've got two more questions for you, broad questions. Here's the first: Let's say there's a Means administration. You are given absolute power over the society or power within the bounds of our system. You can do what a President can do. What are the first steps you take to fix this?

Calley Means: Day one state of emergency for child chronic disease, fully within the Constitution for the President, declare a state of emergency for public health. That's what happened during COVID. It was very little, it was no Congressional legislation. It was a state of emergency. What's happening in childhood chronic disease is a much orders of magnitude bigger state of emergency right now and more imminent emergency in America than COVID.

Tucker Carlson: So you declare a state of emergency.

Calley Means: That's for sure. You declare a state of emergency for childhood health. We actually started a nonprofit and we have executive orders drafted. And there is so much stuff you can do, but it's attacking the incentives. Just for starters, Biden's talked about this and President Trump's talked about it. But I think the fact that you need a President there who's willing to take some heat from these ingrained industries, you could sign a bill tomorrow saying pharma companies can't charge Americans more than what they charge people in Europe. We are spending, in some cases, 10 times more on drugs. We are subsidizing the largest companies in Europe with our insanity. That's not a free market. Tomorrow, you can cut this ridiculous thing.

Tucker Carlson: You can thank the Republicans for that, by the way.

Calley Means: No, it's both sides. Paul Ryan and...

Tucker Carlson: No, but the Republicans, I will say, as a lifetime Republican voter, but they provided the a logical cover for that because they said, I was there when this happened, in Hillary care, Obamacare. So between 1993 and 2011, they made this case consistently through their think tanks that it was a choice between between socialism and capitalism. And if you were controlling costs, that was socialism.

Calley Means: It's socialism for pharma to have Congress over a barrel and not --

Tucker Carlson: Oh, I'm very aware. It was the opposite of the truth.

Calley Means: I was working for conservative think tanks trying to make that argument. It's totally bankrupt. Actually, President Trump's talked about that. That's an executive order he can sign the first day. Sorry, I'm still mad about that. It's crazy. I cannot emphasize this enough how important it is just for medical leaders to cite the science. An executive order tomorrow could make it USDA panelists cannot take money from food companies. What an idea. It can sign an executive order tomorrow that NIH grants can't go to conflicted researchers. Eighty percent of them currently go to conflicted researchers. You could sign an executive order tomorrow that the FDA should stop being funded by Pharma.

Casey Means: Seventy-five percent of their funding comes from Pharma.

Calley Means: Seventy-five percent of the FDA's funding doesn't come from a taxpayer. It comes from Pharma. And there's a revolving door, as we all know, where people go from the FDA to Pharma. Institutions in DC, as we both know, are built to grow. The FDA grows when the Pharma's influence grows. The FDA should be an independent organization. It's not. That's an executive order tomorrow. So you just Rob the conflicts of interest out of these things. Personnel. Assign doctors that we both know onto the USDA Nutrition Panel and have the President, have the Secretary of the Treasury because we're going bankrupt from health care costs, have the Secretary of Defense because 77% of young adults aren't eligible to join the military, have them say, "We are not banning any company." We're not even giving public policy recommendations, but we are saying from a medical perspective that we should reduce ultra-processed food consumption among children. That is a medically valid statement. Medical leaders need to start telling the truth. And then public policy, I'm fine with the public policy chips may fall where they may. But the President, the Secretary of Defense, the head of the NIH, the head of the FDA, should be saying the medical truth.

The most important dynamic in America, I believe, is when a child or a parent is sitting across their doctor at the first stage of metabolic dysfunction. They're shoved into a one-size "It's All Process" right now, where they immediately get on a pharmaceutical treadmill. The medical guidance comes from the NIH, the FDA, and their associated groups like the American Diabetes Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics. That guidance itself is corrupt and says that Ozempic is the cure for obesity and statins and heart disease. If a doctor was recommending the right things, we'd be a healthier country. So you just have to go after the medical guidelines. That would transform the country. The last one, I'd say, just going after incentives. I think it's a huge deal that our information sources have been totally co-opted. I can speak to that directly. Fifty percent of TV news spending coming from pharma is a huge deal. And why the hell is our media playing referee for defending pharmaceutical companies?

Tucker Carlson: Why are they suppressing?

Calley Means: And silencing doctors. Why are they suppressing any questions around that? That's a huge problem that our dominant information sources for the past generation have been able to be co-opted by an industry that just as a statement of economic fact, profits from Americans getting sick. Just undeniable. Tomorrow, tomorrow, the President could sign. That was actually DTC. Farm Advertising was an executive order from... It could be an executive order tomorrow. It's actually beautiful. You would cut 50% of mainstream media revenue and be on the moral high ground. That's absolutely something. Stop recommending the bad stuff and stop subsidizing. There's also a host of things you can do. Before we get into any taxes, any bans, which I'm not even interested in talking about, Coke should exist, but it shouldn't be subsidized by food stamps. It shouldn't be recommended by the USDA as something okay for kids. It shouldn't be funded billions of dollars by the federal government. These things just shouldn't be incentivized. We have a whole host of executive orders to cut the recommendations, to cut the conflicts, and then cut the incentives for these things.

Tucker Carlson: When do we get to put the corrupt doctors in jail? Sorry.

Calley Means: You go to the motivations a lot. I think, again, the systemic genius of the whole system that gives people plausible deniability. I would say, though, to add on to what Casey was saying earlier, that there's knowledge and we do need to start holding people accountable.

Tucker Carlson: Well, and your sister is the perfect example. It's like, I just so strongly identify with the world you grew up in because I know it so well. You're the highest achiever in your neighborhood, and you find that the system you're living in is incompatible with your values. It's morally unacceptable to you, and you opt out, but you're the only one who out. That raises questions about everyone who didn't opt out. I'm sorry, it does.

Calley Means: I've got a dark stat for you. We talk about this in the book. The highest suicide rate of any profession, any profession in America is doctors.

Tucker Carlson: Really?

Calley Means: And the highest burnout rate. So what I see with that is that you don't... Working hard doesn't make you super depressed and suicidal. Missionaries aren't committing... No, I enjoy it. Missionaries aren't committing suicide. I'm working hard on this mission. I feel really good about it. Me too. They actually had a New York Times article recently that identified what doctors are feeling towards soldiers. It's the same psychological dynamic that soldiers who get in the fight for the right reasons, but then are forced by their superiors to commit war crimes. It's actually similar. The New York Times compared doctors to Abu Ghairib soldiers who were forced to do horrible things or felt like they were forced. That's, I think, what's happening to the medical profession is these are all good people. There's much easier ways to make money. We actually are this magnet that attracts the best and the brightest from all of the world. We saddled them with debt. They have no other skills, and then they have societal expectations from their parents and all these credentials, but they do feel trapped. So I hope it's certainly inspiring to me. It changed my whole life learning from Casey's story.

I hope more and more people realize that there's light moving away from this system. And I always go back to Elon. Remember when he said, you're speaking out about all these issues you care about, but advertisers are flocking away from you. And he goes, I don't give a f---. That's the attitude we need in the healthcare industry. We need some people with that type of attitude because it's the same thing. It's like, well, all these children are dying, but what are you going to... It's like, well, they're playing along with it. I'm talking to senior people at pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies. Everyone knows what's going on. It's like, oh, it's hard. We don't know what to do. We need some leadership. We need some leadership. But again, with simple executive orders, you can start changing these incentives. You can start changing them.

Tucker Carlson: You're right. I think I'm too judgmental. I participated in an enormously corrupt system for my entire life, until I was fired. It wasn't half as honorable as you. Would you add anything to that?

Casey Means: Yeah, I mean, I think what Calley is talking about with the incentives is absolutely key. Why is 75% of the FDA budget coming from Pharma? But I think there's a couple other things we could also do to really change things. I mean, one is that we need to stop recommending recommending added sugar to two-year-olds, 10% of our diet. So that's easy, right? The science supports that. Actually, when we were creating the 2020 to 2025 Food Guidelines for America, the Medical Advisory Board to that panel said that we should absolutely reduce sugar recommendations from 10% to 6% of total calories, and it was rejected by the USDA, even though the doctors said to do it. So all these conflicts, we need to get the sugar out of that because then we'll have better school lunches, and we will not be telling parents that it's okay to give your kid 10% of their calories at two years old from added sugar. Also, I think there's something really interesting we can do by actually using the existing tax and legal system to incentivize healthy purchases, because right now, the healthier things are more expensive, and that's a problem, and that's because of our farm bills.

So we need to change the farm bills. But we also need to give people more flexibility to use tax-free dollars to buy healthy products like organic food. And Calley has started an incredible company called TrueMed, which is helping to allow this to happen. Why is it that we can use our HSA FSA funding to buy drugs, but we can't use it to buy organic food? This is crazy. This should be what we spend our tax advantage dollars on. So things like that, creating more patient choice with HSAs. And I think we also need to talk about things like food marketing to children. We're one of the only developed countries that's allowing our TV's Nickelodian for 28% of the ads to children to be ultra-processed foods that we know are associated with chronic disease. And so there's other things, I think, that would be very high yield that are just very basic.

Calley Means: Let me just give you one example that I think will be really relevant to people listening. Infertility is a huge issue. As Casey mentioned, PCOS, which is the leading cause of female infertility, 25%.

Tucker Carlson: Can you explain what that is?

Calley Means: Yes. So very good question. So PCOS is the leading cause of female infertility. Anyone listening of childbearing age will know about this. It's an epidemic right now. It's gone up. It's multiples in the past generation.

Tucker Carlson: What does it stand for?

Casey Means: Polycystic ovarian syndrome.

Tucker Carlson: So... So ovarian cysts.

Calley Means: Well, let's get into it. So That question you just asked, I know OB/GYNs from Harvard who could not answer that question. This is not an exaggeration. OB/GYNs are not taught what the condition is. They're only taught what the intervention is.

Tucker Carlson: Let's always start. I know nothing about medicine or science, but I do know about interviews. Always start with the dumb questions first. If you can't answer the dumb questions, I don't believe you.

Calley Means: When a woman, and many women listening will have PCOS and across their OB/GYN, they're put on a cascading set of interventions that are pharmaceutical --

Tucker Carlson: Can you just tell me what it is?

Calley Means: It's insulin resistance. It is not related to insulin resistance, which is on the spectrum diabetes. It is insulin resistance. PCOS is a metabolic condition. Casey can speak a little bit more to it, but it's fundamentally related to the scene.

Tucker Carlson: What is it? Can you just describe its symptoms and its effect?

Casey Means: Absolutely. So PCOS, essentially, you have an ovary that ovary is making hormones. And when that ovary is stimulated by excess insulin, which is the hormone in the blood that helps us take blood sugar out of the blood and into the cells. Insulin levels go up in the setting of metabolic dysfunction. We basically destroy our cells with our toxic food and lifestyle. The cells can no longer process sugar to energy, so the cell rejects sugar and it stays in the bloodstream. The body compensates by making more insulin to try and drive the sugar into the cell that's putting up a block because it's broken, essentially. That high insulin floats all around the body and does bad things all over the body, like drives cancer growth and also stimulates the ovary to make more testosterone. So you have women who are supposed to be making estrogen and progesterone in very specific levels throughout the hormone cycle so that we can ovulate. And instead, insulin is driving the ovary to create testosterone, which totally disturbs the balance between all the sex hormones in the female body, and we don't ovulate. So you get these cysts that form because you've got an egg trying to basically ovulate, but instead it can't because the hormones are disrupted because of insulin, which is because of metabolic dysfunction, because of our food. We get infertility because we're not ovulating. So there are --

Tucker Carlson: So lucky Charms leads over time.

Casey Means: Yeah, 100% Absolutely. 100%, it's our product. And this condition is reversible in as little as 12 weeks with dietary interventions. There is peer-reviewed studies to show this. If we get our blood sugar levels under control and our insulin levels under control, we restore the hormonal balance. And many women, all the symptoms will disappear and they'll be able to become fertile. And yet doctors do not learn. The average doctor is getting zero education in nutrition, and so they don't even see this. They reach to the clomaphein, the metformin. The treatment that the OB/GYNs are giving to these women is a diabetes. It's a baby's drug, and they're not talking about blood sugar. I started a company called Levels, which consumerizes access to a device called a continuous glucose monitor. There are so many women in our community who have PCOS, who's doctors, who want to understand their blood sugar so that they can naturally heal their PCOS.

Tucker Carlson: Yes, and have babies.

Casey Means: And these are not devices that they will give to... They'll only give it to late stage type 2 diabetics, even though we know that PCOS is insulin resistance, and that if we can monitor our blood sugar with this device and get our blood sugar under better control, it can absolutely set us up to naturally heal. But it's not being talked about by the OJU events because doctors are not trained to see this.

Calley Means: This is everything, right? This connects everything. This is the future of our C-seats, right?

Casey Means: This is fertility.

Calley Means: This topic, any woman dealing with infertility, this connects everything because the doctor doesn't know what Casey just described. We talked to them. They don't know. They did not learn the physiology of why people actually get this condition. And they eat what they kill. So what do they want more than anything? They want an IVF procedure. They want an invasive surgical procedure.

Tucker Carlson: IVF?

Calley Means: Of course. I mean, assistive reproductive technology is skyrocketing clinics all over the world. From an economic perspective, it's a goal. It's a goal mind. If that woman goes on a keto diet, which is the best reversal technique for a PCOS ever studied, 12 weeks, they are robbing that doctor, just from an economic perspective, of tens of thousands of dollars for a gruesome invasive IVF procedure, which is a great procedure, but I think we all should agree, that woman across the table would love to hear that there's a more natural way, just the correct way to reverse this condition, which, by the way --

Tucker Carlson: There are big time downsides to IVF.

Calley Means: Of course.

Casey Means: And not to mention, if the woman If the woman doesn't heal the underlying metabolic issues, it's going to pretend issues for the baby, too. Like not healing the root. Even if you get pregnant with IVF, which is wonderful if that can happen, if you're not healing the root cause issues of the metabolic dysfunction, that's affecting the fetus and affecting the mom's future risk of disease. So by ignoring this, we're just continuing to put people on this treadmill. This is what happened to my mom. And I just want to be super clear, the picture of doctors here is very negative. But again, I just want to emphasize, doctors are not doing this nefariously. There is just a systemic misunderstanding. And there are many doctors who are waking up and teaching themselves these types of things, but it is very still, very fringe and small.

Calley Means: Well, their vacation houses are paid for by committing more interventions. They are highly incentivized.

Tucker Carlson: It's easy for me to judge them because I don't know them. But I just want to refer you back to your own life and the decisions you made. I think that's going to be very hard for a lot of people. You had advantages, as you've said. On the other hand, you're the only person I I've ever met who's done that, and that's pretty discouraging. That's a pretty discouraging.

Casey Means: There is a tribe. I will say it's happening. There is a tribe. It's coming from the bottom up. This is functional medicine. You spoke with Mark Hyman, for instance. There are people, there is a movement It's happening. You look at what's happening in independent media. You're talking about this. Joe Rogan is talking about this. People care. People are listening and people are waking up.

Tucker Carlson: But it's not a boutique issue.

Casey Means: No. Americans want to be healthy. That's the thing. Doctors are trained to think patients non-compliant and lazy. That is not true. People are flocking. Americans want to be healthy, but the entire system is ready to go.

Tucker Carlson: Okay, so that leads me to my last topic that I hope we can get, and I hope you will be as personal and specific as you can be. What do you eat? No, I'm sorry. Don't be embarrassed. Because I think if anyone has made it to this point in the conversation, it's like, this is a bigger deal than I realized it was. The consequences to me personally are the worst possible. Pancreatic cancer, Alzheimer's, there's nothing worse. But you're absolutely right. Both of you made the point. Poor people are at a disadvantage. That's one liberal talking point. That's true. They are. The stuff's expensive. The only people I know who know anything about this are rich people, privileged people.

Casey Means: It's weaponized against them.

Tucker Carlson: I can tell that that's true. But even if you can afford to buy expensive food, how do you do that? What do you do? What do you eat? What don't you eat?

Casey Means: The number one thing that people need to understand is we need to stop eating ultra-processed We need to stop eating this.

Tucker Carlson: What is ultra-processed? Can you just give examples?

Casey Means: Absolutely. So ultra-processed food is basically all the things that you're seeing at the grocery store that have this laundry list of ingredients that usually are based on three ingredients: ultra-processed flour, ultra-processed added sugars, and ultra-processed seed oil. So this is going to be white flour, cane sugar, and things like cotton seed oil, safflour oil, sunflower oil, dopamine oil. So these crappy foods that did not exist 150 years ago, ultra-fine white flour, added sugars, and seed oils.

Tucker Carlson: That's all brand name foods.

Casey Means: It's like everything. I mean, we have a list in the book of what you should not eat, and it's basically everything at the grocery store. We should all be shopping. There are 9,000 farmers markets in the United States right now. People can make the effort and reprioritize their values to focus on getting nutritious food. We need to be eating organic, unprocessed foods for the vast majority of our calories. And we need to get back to having a sense of pride and responsibility in our households to cook food. One of the One of the unintentional downsides of the feminist movement is that we somehow made people feel that food preparation was a less than activity.

I bought into this for my entire early professional life, that it was somehow beneath me. I was like a slave in the kitchen if I was cooking for husband or family. There is no more important thing we can be doing than feeding our children and our family's healthy food. Less than 30% of American families are eating together more than once per week. We need to be sitting down at the dinner table eating real unprocessed food, cooked with love at home. There is no way to drug ourselves out of the fact that we eat 40 to 70 metric tons of food in our lifetime. It's a lot of food, right? This is the molecular information that is building our bodies, building our brains, making our hormones, feeding our microbiome. The food is what we are built of. Right now, 70% of it is trash made from a factory to addict us. Of course, we're sick. So that is number one. So to answer your question very specifically, I don't follow dietary dogma. I eat organic unprocessed foods that I buy at the farmer's market, and I cook every single meal for my partner and I.

And when I have children in the next few years, I am so deeply excited to cook every meal for them from scratch because there's nothing more important. And so for people who can't necessarily get to a farmer's market, it's go to coffee.

Tucker Carlson: You are radical. I love it.

Casey Means: How is this radical? It's not.

Tucker Carlson: Isn't it wild that this is radical? It's such a total rejection at every level of the values of our society, which I just love.

Casey Means: I had to wake up. I was so deep in this in my 20s, I cannot even tell you. I It was deep, deep in the opposite of this. I believe that people... No one wants to be sick, but the answer is on our fork. I would say, to get very specific now, organic fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, beans, legumes, meat, poultry, eggs, game meats, grass-fed, organic, pasture-raised.

Tucker Carlson: What about cheese?

Casey Means: Cheese, dairy, but grass-fed, high-quality, organic. The molecular information in these factors factory cow, these factory farmed cows that are jammed with antibiotics and hormones, that milk is not what you want to be drinking. We need cows --

Calley Means: The problem is the milk, it's the quality.

Casey Means: It's the quality of the milk. Organic food has more nutrients than non-organic food. We need to be...

Tucker Carlson: Is it hard to find... I love cheese, for example. Love cheese. So if I just --

Casey Means: It's at Costco now. Grass-fed. Grass-fed cheese, okay. I mean, how wild is it that it's illegal to buy raw milk in this country?

Calley Means: Or if it's imported from Europe, honestly.

Casey Means: Imported from Europe, yeah, because they're going to have much better ...

Calley Means: They have Parmesan at Costco that's imported from Europe. The lactose and all these allergies that have all just started in the past 30 years are because of the toxicity of the food, not the food itself. All these foods, anything that we ate 10,000 years ago that were evolutionary made to eat is generally fine. It's what's been done to the food. So a pasture raised, which has just been beef for all of history up until industrial --

Tucker Carlson: Raising cows.

Calley Means: That just means they're outside. Not getting poison. Raising, it's as they know. They're eating grass. Now, most industrial farm meat, right, they're inside. They have cortisol because they're so stressed and they're eating GMO corn and soy. That impacts their biology. Actually, the factory farm meat has a much higher omega-6 content, whereas one's eating grass outside or omega-3, much more omega-3 fatty acids. Omega-6 is inflammatory, omega-3 is not. Actually, again and again, we go through this in the book, but just being on a path of curiosity about this, eating food how it's meant to be made and meant to be raised, the actual biology makeup of the food itself is different when it's factory farmed. Actually, when you're eating a traditionally industrial-raised meat, you're much more inflammatory.

It items are going into your body. So you just always need to strive. That's why we do think, and there's problems with the organic designations, but as much as you can get away from the pesticides being spread on this food, as much as you can get to how the food has been raised for all of history, up until a couple generations ago, because the way the food is manufactured and the stuff that is put on food is very corrupt. It's just not the case in other countries. So as much as you can get to how it's been made forever, the better. And that's why we say and how if we were in charge of everything, I would fire every... And I truly mean this. I'm not joking. I'd fire every single nutrition scientist in the government. I'd stop every single all this complicated nutrition guidelines. The point of the USDA putting out thousands of studies, literally, and all this guidance is to confuse people because they're bought off by the food companies. I'd replace it with one guideline is that we need to, as a public policy matter, reduce ultra-processed food consumption among children.

Tucker Carlson: Where are you on sugar?

Casey Means: Well, yeah. I mean, sugar is... The amount of added sugar that we're eating in this country is astronomical. The average American is eating over 100 pounds of added sugar per year. In the 1800s, it was less than five pounds. So So we're eating, we are overwhelming our bodies with this material that is destroying our cellular health. The body has to do something with all that sugar, right? And so the body is primed, knows how to turn sugar into energy. That's what the mitochondria does. That's what metabolic health is. Okay, but if you're putting on 10, 20, 30 times the amount of sugar, this substrate for energy that the body has been used to doing or can handle, you're going to gum up the system. You're going to destroy the system. It's too much work for the body. So what happens? We get dysfunction, we get metabolic dysfunction, we get prediabetes, diabetes. And where does all that sugar go? Sugar gets converted to fat. And so that's why we're all getting so heavy, in part because of all this excess sugar we're eating that has to go somewhere. It's literally converted to fat in the body. And so it's astronomical. And 50% of Americans now have a blood sugar disorder.

Calley Means: This is back to ultra-processed food. So liquid sugar in the form of a Coke, right? You chug one Coke. That's like the sugar of 15 oranges, right? And the oranges have the fiber. So you couldn't even physically eat all of the whole food, unprocessed food, to get the sugar that's weaponized in those sugary drinks and all the things we're getting at Starbucks and all the things kids are drinking. Even juice, which Michelle Obama is now supporting as sugar water, literally. She is now promoting sugar water for kids.

Casey Means: Because it's a better-than-soda option.

Calley Means: But it's still high in sugar.

Tucker Carlson: Why is she doing that?

Calley Means: Because she wants to make money.

Tucker Carlson: Oh, so she's like a flack for some sugar company.

Calley Means: Oh, no, no. She partnered with a private equity company that specializes in junk food influence or partnerships.

Tucker Carlson: Actually?

Calley Means: Oh, yeah. They're a private equity company that works on the Rock's energy drink and specializes in partnerships where high-level influencers partner to promote junk food. And she is the chief spokesperson and co founder of Plessie, which is a sugar water for kids.

Casey Means: It has less sugar than soda. Because it's addictive. So they can advertise that it's better than juice or sugar.

Calley Means: It's sugar water. Kids should be drinking water. It's a safer cigarette. And milk. What if Michelle Obama said that? What if Michelle Obama endorsed water bottles?

Casey Means: Stop drinking sugar water.

Calley Means: Kids shouldn't be drinking sugar water. The fact that the USDA and Michelle Obama can't say that, Michelle Obama was right in the first year talking about food, but she was directly bought off. She was directly influenced by the food companies. John Kerry, Theresa Hines. There was a lot of people that got to Michelle. This is well documented, and she shifted everything to exercise. And the exercise group that she then partnered with was actually funded by ultra-processed food companies, and she shifted all to exercise and totally stopped talking about food. And to exercise is --

Tucker Carlson: Anyone who's ever tried to lose weight knows that exercise is super important. It's good for you. But you're not going to lose the time.

Casey Means: That's The crazy thing about the... Calley talked about the soda and how it's weaponized. I really want to drive that point home. High fructose corn syrup, which is what's in a lot of these drinks, was invented in the 1970s. This is a brand new substance. And the invention of high fructose corn syrup, which is subsidized by the government through Commodity Crop Farm Bill subsidies to corn. So it's basically we're giving the soda companies this cheaper product, which is then turned into high fructose corn syrup. Something interesting about fructose that we learned from bears who hibernate is that aside from other calories that you eat them and they cue satiety, with fructose, it's a very interesting molecule. It's found in berries. And when you have an animal who needs to go into hibernation, they need to pack on fat in their body, right? So before hibernation, you have to load your body with fat. So fructose, aside from other calories, different than other calories, actually does not cue satiety. It cues the feed-forward violence and aggression mechanism in that animal. It's basically out-compete all other animals to eat as many berries as possible in the fall to store fat, which is fructose creates metabolic dysfunction, causes us to turn our sugar to fat, to basically store fat for winter.

So soda companies know all this. So they put this this molecule in the sodas that you're chugging, which is like Calley said, like 15 oranges and the fructose you'd get in this. And it's causing kids to be insatiably hungry because essentially it's telling their brains that winter is coming, pack on the fat. But of course, that winter is never going to happen.

Tucker Carlson: And the tobacco side is.

Casey Means: Absolutely. Whole foods are great. You know, anything that is a whole food that has not been broken down into its constituent parts and made into a Franken food in a factory by a multinational Corporation is a food that I'm going to eat. And the reason I choose organic or regenerative is because that berry, a berry just in a grocery store that's not organic is going to have less nutrients in it than the berry that you buy from a farm. These foods contain anti-cancer compounds. They contain tens of thousands of molecules, literally medicine, that changes our gene expression. This is nutrigenomics. It all gets lost when you process the food.

Calley Means: It's nothing short of gaslighting to convince us that these tons of food we eat are this like French science, and these pills are the only thing that's serious science. I mean, these truly are medicine. I just say, Tucker, we get so confused, and this is a core point we try to drive home in the book, is that there's confusion by design. There's not an epidemic of people, I guarantee you, that are eating a 90% non-ultra-processed diet that have helpful epidemics. I don't care if you're a carnival or vegan, because if you're on that path of being curious for you and your family and taking that rebellion to actually cook and eat whole food, you're going to adjust. You're going to look at your blood test and make certain... It's different for everybody. But just as a public policy matter, as a spiritual matter in the country, we should be trying to engender more awe and curiosity about what we're putting on our bodies. I want to be clear to everyone watching, this is not about lecturing you or your family to eat any type of food. I'm making the point that there has really been something done to us. I don't think the American people are just a lazy suicidal population where everyone wants, 94% of the country wants to be --

Tucker Carlson: No, but that's such a smart point. The curiosity, I had a weird childhood with food I'm blaming my childhood.

Calley Means: Of course.

Tucker Carlson: I never really care about food, and I'll just whatever's there, I'll eat it. Lowest common denominator type thing. I've always gotten fat every year. I have to slow down. You know what I mean? My wife, I've been with 40 years in September, same weight when I met her. She's really interested in food. She's not going to put something in her mouth that's not good for her. She knows what it is. She's always been this way since the mid '80s when I met her. And she's way healthier. My brother is the same way. They're interested in food, therefore, they're pretty healthy, actually. It's the lack of curiosity. I never think about it. It's just pizza. Pizza is good. That's what I know.

Casey Means: The basic way to start with that curiosity is read labels, right? If there's ingredients on a package --

Tucker Carlson: I'm in my reading class.

Casey Means: Well, not to you. But it might be interesting for people to just look at labels. If you cannot understand a word on that package, what these ingredients are, if you can't visualize it, you probably shouldn't be putting it in your body.

Tucker Carlson: What food do you think makes you feel best, since we're talking about food? What do you really enjoy eating? When you eat it and you're like, I feel great. This is actually good for me. I can feel that it's good for me.

Casey Means: Well, I mean, for me, it's the freshest possible foods, foods that I know the farmer, and I got it from the farmer's market, and they're beautiful. I think this gaslighting, I think there's been this incredible dissociation. It's indoctrinated in us from childhood to not trust our intuition. To think we have to give our power away because we're dumb and we're not smart. It's built into every level of the health care system. I mean, in many American states, patients don't even own their health care records because basically doctors don't trust patients in understanding that they can understand. They don't own them.

Calley Means: They don't own them.

Casey Means: Like the doctor of the hospital does. Because we have so built in this idea that patients are not smart enough to understand their own health. So from this even plays into HIPAA and all these laws about patient privacy. It's like, oh, we have to we have to sequester. Have you ever tried to get your health care records? It's impossible, right? Because we have --

Tucker Carlson: I don't know my own blood type, and I don't know anyone else who knows his own blood type. Why is that?

Casey Means: That's by design, right? Because if you can keep people ignorant --

Tucker Carlson: That's so weird. Why wouldn't you know your blood type?

Casey Means: Because if you can keep people ignorant about their own health, then there's a power dynamic where you can give them any solution. So let's get back to food, because I think a lot of this comes back to trusting our intuition. Every Sunday, after I go to the farmer's market, I lay out all the food, the venison that came from someone who owns a beautiful ranch outside of LA, the beautiful heirloom tomatoes that are colorful with purples, the the watermelon radishes. And I lay it all out on my counter, and I literally pray with it. This is awe-inspiring to me. This is all the atoms and the molecules that over the next week or two are going to make up my cells. They are going to become me. I am going to take on the characteristics of this food. And I know, I look at that food, and if I stop and let myself trust my intuition, I know this food is healthy for me. I just know it. But we've been so divorced from our common sense by design.

There's no fat girafes, right? There's no They know, right? But we've been told that we can't understand. Every sixth grader in America can understand basic biology, metabolic health, and nutrition. But we have been told it's too complicated. Like Calley said, by design, confusion is the product. So to answer your question, what makes me feel good? It's the freshest, most beautiful foods that I have complete and utter awe for because those molecules and atoms are going to go into my body. They're going to heal my... They're going to heal anything that's going wrong. They're going to change my gene expression. They're going to fortify my immune system. They're going to feed my microbiome, which makes 95% of my serotonin, which lets me think and have creative ideas and love my partner and all these things. It's going to be my partner and my bodies and my future children's bodies, right? And so I am in awe and reverence of food. And I think that, and I do, I bless it because it's going to become me. And I think we need to get back to that appreciation of the world food.

Tucker Carlson: Shouldn't the medical authorities, what...

Calley Means: Again, take policy side. What if our medical leaders started talking about this? We have a medical crisis.

Tucker Carlson: I've never heard anybody talk like that in their life.

Calley Means: We have a medical crisis. We have a medical crisis right now, and that is the science. That is following the science. That should be the message from doctors. Casey, I don't want to gloss over this. There's a metabolic health crisis among babies that are born. Mothers are passing metabolic dysfunction and essentially almost prediabetes onto kids en masse. That's how bad this has gotten. Kids are being with dysfunctional microbiomes and metabolic dysfunction. And literally, I've talked to Harvard doctors about that. I talked on one of the podcasts about this to a Harvard doctor, and she said that's a case for Ozempic, that babies are being born with such horrible metabolic dysfunction that we need to start jabbing them right away. I say That's a sign of a crisis. And the fact that babies are being born sick is actually, maybe we shouldn't be doing more of the same and just keep drugging them more. We should actually be asking why there's a metabolic crisis among babies.

Tucker Carlson: Yeah, there's a crisis in the... That's the way that we think.

Calley Means: It's a root of a lot of, I think, what's happening. The biggest societal, I think, historical dynamic of the past decade has been this populist uprising towards institutions. I don't think people can quite put their finger on it all the time, but there's this frustration that we're really being let down. To me, what's happening to our health and the gas lane that's happening to our health and the fact that we're not hearing things like this and hearing that drugs are our saviors and just keep doing more of the same from industries that are profiting from that sickness, to me, it actually is the number one example of what's fueling this populace frustration. Health care is the largest industry, and it's something that's impacting these incentives, I think I would argue, are impacting Americans across the kitchen table and impacting their lives more than any other industry.

Tucker Carlson: Can I ask one last question? So one of the things I noticed about both of you is you're mentally Obviously, you're smart, but it's more than just smart. You're sharp and fast, and you have very quick recall. You're just crisp. I notice the way people talk. Because I talk for a living. How big enough... So bad food dulls you? I've I've always noticed that.

Casey Means: Absolutely. Well, I mean, for so many reasons, Tucker, but I mean, to name a couple of them, if you have a big blood sugar swing, which the average American, because the vast majority of our calories are coming from ultra-processed food that turn into glucose in our bloodstream, blood sugar, right? When you have a big glucose spike and crash, that is associated with reduced fact recall. Literally that crash and spike, like the post-meal crash, like you eat something and then you might feel lethargic afterwards. That's in part because your blood sugar is skyrocketing and crashing. The average American child is probably on this roller coaster all day long. We want stable, steady blood sugar levels. So we're not --

Tucker Carlson: It's making us dumber then.

Casey Means: So that's the short term, right? Over the long term, we're building the machine of the body out of shoddy materials, right? And that's going to impact our brains. It's going to impact the way that we think. Our microbiome makes a lot of our neurotransmitters. And we are just trashing our microbiome now, right? With ultra-processed food, no fiber. Fiber feeds the microbiome. The 95% of Our organs aren't getting enough fiber. So we're not feeding the thing inside of us that makes our neurotransmitters that helps us think this is insanity. And then we're trashing the microbiome with antibiotics, which destroy our... We're overusing antibiotics like crazy, which destroy our microbiome and increase our risk of depression and other issues.

Calley Means: Three times more suicidal the year after taking them.

Tucker Carlson: What?

Casey Means: So there is just... It's the all-out warfare. It makes you step back and think like, what's happening here? We have this like, doled out, done I'm not saying the Americans... I'm saying that it's making us --

Calley Means: There's forces that want to dull.

Casey Means: It's reducing our IQs. It's making us lose our minds early with Alzheimer's. It's making our kids not able to sit down and learn because of ADHD and autism rates that are skyrocketing. And it's all going up all at once. And we know it's because of our toxic food systems and the chemicals in our environment. And we're not protecting kids. And that is very sinister. And I think on the biggest macro level, the most zoomed out spiritual on a physical level. I think what we have to realize is that we are miracles. Every human is a miracle. This life is a miracle. I mean, spiritual beings having this insane experience on planet Earth. And fundamentally, The thing that we're doing with metabolic health is we're making energy in the body, right? The way we're doing that is we're taking food that got its energy from the sun, right? The sun literally photosynthesis happens.

It creates starches in plants, and then we eat them or animals eat them. And what metabolism is, is taking the starches that are stored energy from the sun through photosynthesis, liberating it in our bodies to create energy to fuel our minds and to fuel our bodies so that we can think and reach our highest purpose. Right now, in the vast majority of Americans, our toxic food system is blocking that process, which means it's blocking the miraculous process of essentially taking this beautiful... This is not voo-doo. This is just fact of science. Taking this universal sun light energy and liberating it to fuel our lives, that This is broken. This is dark. This is very dark. Americans are not only sick, but the core process of being able to create and transform energy is broken. And we need to fix this because we need all hands on deck right now in America to solve these big issues. And we need to be thinking properly, feeling good. And we can rapidly with some of these simple changes.

Tucker Carlson: I don't think I can add to that. And as I said an hour ago, I do think you're going to change the world. I mean that. I mean that. And this is the book. I never do this because it feels so grubby and commercial, but in this case, I mean it. Good energy. That was good energy. Thank you. Thank you.

Casey Means: Thank you, Tucker.