by Rush Limbaugh in the Limbaugh Letter, October 2018
So delighted to speak with the brilliant author of the very significant 2014 book, Licensed to Lie: Exposing Corruption in the Department of Justice. Serving in the DOJ for ten years as Assistant U.S. Attorney, she saw firsthand the corruption we are observing today -- with many of the same players.
RUSH: Sidney, I'm glad we can finally catch up with each other. It's a pleasure for me to talk to you.
POWELL: Thank you! It's an honor for me.
RUSH: I picked up your book, Licensed to Lie, started reading, and I grew stunned. I was honestly unfamiliar with the corruption you described. I guess I'm fairly naive.
POWELL: Well, I was in the system and I couldn't believe it. I don't think I would have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself, which is why I had to write the book.
RUSH: By the way, as an aside, your writing is superb. It captured me the same way as when reading a mystery thriller. But let me just summarize, for those who don't know, though I've talked about it on the radio. Your book starts with the Enron Task Force and moves on to the Sen. Ted Stevens (R, AK) case and trial. It details unbelievable prosecutorial corruption at every stage. The Enron case ends with a unanimous Supreme Court overturning those convictions. You detail the problems you witnessed, innocent people being sent to jail, ruining their lives. You depict the prosecution and judges apparently so familiar with each other, it seemed as if there was no chance for any defendant in these cases. Then I find that in the Mueller investigation, we've got the same names. The same people, many of them, are still at work, still engaging in the same kind of illegal practices. I could tell when I was reading what you wrote, that you were incredulous about this.
POWELL: Yes.
RUSH: What was it that sparked you to sit down and write this book?
POWELL: I literally prayed that I would not have to write it. The reason that I did is because the system failed at every turn. If I could have made it work at any point, as I had in other cases I felt had not been done properly, I wouldn't have written the book. But then the Bar Associations denied the grievances of these people. Some of them bounced like a rubber ball. The one we filed against [DOJ prosecutor] Matthew Friedrich in Texas -- they practically sent it back by return mail.
In the others, there was a lot more finagling. One involved then-General Counsel of the FBI, Andrew Weissmann, and the other involved then-Head White House Counsel, Kathryn Ruemmler. They had to do a lot more to sweep those under the rug. But by the time they were gone, I just said, "I've got to do this." It's nothing I ever set out to do, it's not what I wanted to do, and I literally did pray that I wouldn't have to write the book, but I did.
RUSH: How far does this go now? This "corrupt cabal", as you put it -- Robert Mueller, James Comey, Andrew Weissmann, Kathryn Ruemmler, Rod Rosenstein -- engaging in, I don't know how else to categorize it, just full-fledged illegality, not turning over exculpatory evidence, totally ignoring Brady disclosure rules, suborning perjury of their own witnesses in the Stevens case, and on and on: Why are they not disbarred? [Laughs] My incredulity here is preventing me from even finishing the question. Your book was written in 2014 and, with many other books, helps expose what is going on in the Mueller investigation, this entirely made-up hoax of "Russian collusion" with Trump, yet nothing seems to happen to these people, Sidney.
POWELL: That's because prosecutors have absolute immunity. They have the immunity of the sovereign, so you can't sue them civilly. They have no supervision by anyone. Look at Rosenstein thumbing his nose at Congress in their role of Congressional oversight. It's absolutely extraordinary. I've known for several years now that we need to revamp the whole system, top to bottom, because the deck is far too stacked in favor of prosecutors.
There's no remedy and nothing happens when prosecutors literally suborn perjury or prosecute innocent people when they know they're innocent. There's nothing that can be done because there's no system in place that takes it seriously. Bar Associations couldn't care less, obviously. If you're a prosecutor, you've got a license to lie and do whatever else you want to do, apparently.
RUSH: Nothing can be done? This is the United States of America! The stories in your book do not sound like the kind of justice I was raised to believe exists. Look, I know that while putting away genuine bad guys it is tempting to skirt the edges, but your book demonstrates how the innocent were railroaded time and time again. Now it's happening in the Trump investigation. Has there been any reaction to your book from the people you write about?
POWELL: No, they have been dead silent. Only one person that I named in the book had a lawyer write me, to kind of disclaim what I said about her, but none of the main people have responded at all. It was literally suppressed during the Obama Administration, and I think Amazon has "shadow-banned" me, although it still made No. 1 a couple of times in different categories at Amazon. John Stossel picked up on it, and Senator Orrin Hatch held it up to Loretta Lynch in her confirmation hearing, but no one else with a large microphone paid any attention to it, really, until all this stuff started happening with President Trump.
RUSH: Let's get some of the top names here. Andrew Weissmann is a key figure in the Enron case in the Department of Justice and railroads a bunch of people, and ends up as a lead investigator for Mueller. Who is this guy?
POWELL: He cut his teeth in the eastern district of New York, ironically with Loretta Lynch. I think leslie Caldwell, who later became Loretta Lynch's head of the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice, was there also. All these people go way back together, which is why I called them a "corrupt cabal". Weissmann cut his teeth doing mob cases, and then he brought mob tactics [laughs] to the Enron Task Force and now to the Mueller investigation.
As soon as I heard Paul Manafort's house had been raided in the wee hours of the morning, I knew it was textbook Weissmann. Anything to terrorize the defendant and to shut down his ability to defend himself. They seized not only Manafort's own assets, but they froze the assets of his kids. He had virtually no way to defend himself financially, and they put him in solitary and charged him with obstruction of justice. That's another textbook Weissmann tactic.
RUSH: Okay, but for Weissmann to get away with it, someone like Mueller has to sign off on it.
POWELL: Exactly. Mueller has protected him for at least 20 years of his career because Mueller brought him back from the Enron Task Force to serve as Deputy Director General Counsel of the FBI.
RUSH: But it's more than protecting him, it's promoting him, it's endorsing his tactics and techniques. So there's no way Manafort could have avoided what happened to him; no matter what, they were going to do this to him just because they can?
POWELL: Exactly.
RUSH: This is just a show of force, a show of power.
POWELL: It is. Like they destroyed Arthur Anderson just as a power play, so that after the "death penalty" for Anderson, every company they went to would cave and give them whatever they wanted. They even installed an overseer in Merrill Lynch for over a year and a half who was reviewing the lawyers' bills and anything else they wanted.
RUSH: Arthur Anderson was an accounting company. They literally destroyed an ongoing American accounting corporation and for nothing, for no reason. Arthur Anderson had no recourse.
POWELL: Arthur Anderson was the gold standard in accounting for decades. The company was 75 years old, I think, with 85,000 employees when the government decided to destroy it. It was mainly Mr. Weissmann and Leslie Caldwell who were responsible for doing that.
RUSH: It was in relation to their role with Enron?
POWELL: Right. It was because Arthur Anderson was Enron's accountants. Caldwell and Weissmann simply decided they were going to take down the company, destroy the company, to send a message that anybody who did business with Enron was likely to encounter the government and be prosecuted. They knew it would destroy the company as soon as they indicted it, so they sealed the indictment for a week so they could work behind the scenes with the SEC and the 2,500 publicly traded companies that Arthur Anderson represented so there wouldn't be upheaval in the markets when the indictment was announced.
RUSH: They played off the fact that there was massive public disgust and anger at Enron. A lot of people in Houston, average, ordinary people who worked at Enron, ended up being wiped out and ruined. So that was the ticket, that was the onramp to go out and destroy anybody who had anything to do with that as a means of actually establishing a rapport with average Americans that the DOJ was looking out for them.
POWELL: Exactly. There was absolute public outrage over the scandal at Enron. People lost their life savings, they lost their retirement. There was widespread devastation from the collapse of the company. So President George Bush untethered this group of Enron Task Force prosecutors from the Department of Justice and set them about to ferret out the "white-collar crooks", and they just went wild. They targeted people right and left. They made sweetheart plea deals with most of the guiltiest people, like Andrew Fastow and Michael Kopper. They were really the two architects of the fraud at Enron. Fastow in particular stole many millions of dollars from Enron.
But like they're doing now against the President, they make sweetheart plea deals with the real crooks and use them to squeeze them to get people higher up that they want to target for whatever reason, usually political. They notch their belts with the higher-ranking people.
RUSH: Right. But with the Mueller task force, they're going after innocent people, I think to cover up the guilt they've all engaged in as members of the Obama Department of Justice. But speaking of Fastow and people at Enron who deserved it, you represented someone at Merrill Lynch. What you wrote about this guy and his family is breathtaking.
POWELL: Yes, Jim Brown.
RUSH: Jim Brown, sent to jail, his life is ruined, his kids are ruined. He hadn't done anything, these people knew he was innocent, and they still set out to destroy him. What got me, Sidney, in the way you wrote it, was the complicity of the judges. The judges allowed all this to happen. That's supposedly where the brakes on injustice in court are supposed to be, but the judges didn't provide any of that.
POWELL: No, they really didn't. Particularly Judge Ewing Werlein in Houston, who has long been a shill for the government in any criminal prosecution. But judges in general are predisposed to believe the government. Everybody wants to think the government and the prosecutors are doing it right. Very few are willing to hold their feet to the fire and hold them accountable like Judge Ellis did earlier in the Manafort case. And you see what happened. Even when Judge Ellis was trying to level the playing field, it's still extremely difficult to get a fair trial when the government writes its indictment in such a way that would make the Pope sound guilty.
RUSH: What was the name again of the judge who presided over the Ted Stevens case?
POWELL: That was Judge Emmet Sullivan in the District of Columbia.
RUSH: Right. He did go after that set of prosecutors. He reamed them, and he investigated them, and penalized them. Ted Stevens ended up being entirely exonerated, because it came to light that they had suborned perjury of their chief witness over a $100,000 renovation bill.
In the meantime, they destroyed Steven's Senate career. They turned his seat over to the opposition party, the Democrats. My problem is that even though you exposed it, and I know that more people have read it than would ever admit to it, it doesn't change.
It's like the Mueller investigation. You had a great column in the Daily Caller recently, "Trump Has Been Set Up, Framed, and Relentlessly Persecuted by the American Intelligence Community". You document it. It's increasingly clear that the intelligence community believes it runs the country. They think they're not accountable to the President; they believe he's accountable to them. Senator Chuck Schumer kind of confirmed that when he said that if you rub these guys wrong, they can ruin you "six ways from Sunday".
But what you describe is right on the money. Trump has been set up, framed, relentlessly persecuted by the American intelligence community, working with the same group of lawyers from the Enron Task Force and the Ted Stevens case. Is it more widespread than just these people?
POWELL: I hate to tell you, but I think it's more widespread. I strongly believe that the weaponization and politicization of the Department of Justice spread to a lot of the field offices of the U.S. Attorneys. Southern District of New York [SDNY] has long had issues, San Francisco and L.A. are generally regarded as problematic. It's even happened in Dallas.
Especially toward the end of Obama's term in office, there were a number of indictments brought against Trump people. I can identify three, for example, that I know of that were related to friends of Trump, close allies or associates. A big donor to Pence in Arizona, I think it was, and a family in Dallas, and remember Texas Congressman Steve Stockman, who went after Lois Lerner so hard and tried to hold her accountable for all her misdeeds in IRS? Well, he's just been remanded to prison immediately upon return of the jury verdict against him on 23 counts that were brought by the ironically named Public Integrity Section of the Department of Justice. He's been in prison for probably two-and-a-half months now, and he hasn't even been sentenced. They threw the book at him.
It goes on and on. They are hiding Brady evidence in different field offices, also. I'd say 20 percent of the Department of Justice, including U.S. Attorneys' offices, need to be cleaned out. It might even be a bit more than that.
But the tone is set from the top, and people have just not set the tone that needs to be set. The merit system protection board protects all government employees so strongly that it's next to impossible to do anything about them, even when they've committed these deliberate wrongs.
RUSH: Briefly explain "Brady". That's a term lawyers throw around. What's its origin?
POWELL: It stems from a Supreme Court case called Brady v. Maryland. The Supreme Court held that because the government holds all the cards, they either investigate everything before they indict and hold all the evidence, or if a violent crime occurs then they're the first on the scene, they have all their agents doing the investigation and they collect all the evidence. So the principle is that, because the government holds all the cards, they are required to give the defendant any evidence they have that might help prove his innocence or mitigate his sentence in any way.
There are different cases that have risen since Brady that refine it a bit more, but it covers anything that might impeach a witness, or mitigate the defendant's sentence, or anything that tends to show that he's innocent or contradicts the testimony of any government agent or witness.
Well, prosecutors have interpreted that in different ways and the Supreme Court has not forcefully required the production of evidence that's favorable to the defense as strongly as they should. So the government's position is that they get to decide whether they have to produce it, depending on whether they deem it material or important to the defense. That's the loophole they use to get out of it all the time. The government doesn't even know what's material to the defense, what really matters, because they don't know the defense theories. They use that as an excuse to withhold evidence they really do know would be a problem for them.
RUSH: They know if something is exculpatory or not based on what they're charging.
POWELL: Oh, yes. They know what contradicts their witness. But like in the Merrill Lynch Enron case, they said anything favorable to the defense wasn't material. They completely discount as false anything that favors the defense, so from their perspective, everything proves guilt. It's ridiculous.
RUSH: What is the prosecution's success rate, conviction rate, in federal cases?
POWELL: It's 95 to 97 percent.
RUSH: So the defendants go in with the deck stacked against them statistically. That's my point. The judge expects conviction, the jury pretty much expects it, and the whole process starts with the expectation that whoever is at the defense table did it.
POWELL: Right. As soon as you read an indictment you think, "Oh, my God." They have a way of writing an indictment so that if you gave your mother a nice Christmas present, they would accuse you of money laundering or hiding assets.
RUSH: Everything has been corrupted by politics, including the Department of Justice. For example, the Mueller investigation. When do you think this is going to end?
POWELL: I've predicted it won't end until Trump is out of office.
RUSH: So, eight years in total, potentially?
POWELL: Yes. I think he will drag it out as long as he possibly can, because the goal is to besiege the Trump Presidency from every angle they can find.
RUSH: I agree with you. I heard Rudy say, "Oh, we're going to wrap up by September." I said, "What are you thinking?"
POWELL: [Laughs] That was wishful thinking.
RUSH: I also heard, "Mueller's going to get this wrapped up at least by October, because he's not going to want this to affect the misterms." I said, "What are you smoking? Not affect the midterms?" All of this is about destroying Trump. People said, "Look, Mueller's got nothing, he's passed it off to New York." I said, "Don't buy any of that. The whole purpose here is to destroy Trump." These are state and local cases in which Trump can't pardon.
POWELL: He sent it to the Southern District of new York to broaden his reach, not to hand anything off. It gives him even more prosecutors to coordinate his assault with.
RUSH: Right. If the New York State Attorney or certainly the Manhattan D.A. wanted to throw something against the wall to see if it would stick, I don't doubt they would try. In fact, they already are trying to destroy the Trump Foundation. With the outrage that Trump's election represents to them, I don't think there's anything they consider out of bounds in destroying him, including ruining his business, like they've done to Manafort and anybody else who has gotten in their way. It makes people feels powerless. Is there anything Trump could do to stop them?
POWELL: I strongly believe that if we win the midterms -- and we should, because these are the most important midterms in the history of our country; we must win them or we're going down the tubes -- once that happens, he should fire Rod Rosenstein and Christopher Wray at a minimum. If Sessions then quits, so be it. We need to start over with people who are willing to do the hard work to clean it up. And it needs to be done fast.
RUSH: Do you think he realizes that?
POWELL: I think he does. I'm guessing his advisors are telling him to lay low and keep hands off and hopefully let the system work, but as you can see from Licensed to Lie, the system is broken.
RUSH: My problem with that is I think his first set of attorneys came from "the swamp", to one degree or another. When it comes down to it, such people's concerns are for their lives and careers post-Trump. So their loyalty is really not to Trump, it's ultimately to the swamp. If that's where they owe their living, if they owe their prosperity and their kids' futures to remaining friends and having good connections with everybody in the Washington establishment, then that's what they're going to do.
So they're advising Trump, "Don't do this, don't do that. We don't want to do anything where they could say you are obstructing." So we've got Trump, at least initially, literally behaving defensively instead of going on offense, when this "case", if you can even call it that, is based on a fake dossier. We have a phony, trumped-up piece of political opposition that was used to get warrants from a secret court to spy on Trump.
What do you think the FISA judges think when they learn that what they were presented as evidence of legitimate intelligence is nothing but a fake document written by political operatives, and that they've been lied to? Don't tell me they don't care, either.
POWELL: I don't know why they haven't done something, Rush. I don't understand that. They're federal judges. They're appointed for life. They could haul those prosecutors in and hold them in contempt of court, like Judge Sullivan did in the Ted Stevens case. I don't understand why they're not doing something.
And I'm beyond appalled that Rod Rosenstein and Dana Boente, two Trump appointees, signed off on the FISA applications. Then Rosenstein tells Congress that he didn't read it, he was briefed by people? You're sitting there, it's only maybe a 40- or 50-page document, you know you're asking for a court to certify the most intrusive of all kinds of warrants against a sitting President, and he lets people "brief" him on it instead if reading it himself? That's a freaking outrage.
RUSH: That's the thing you see in all these players. They seem to be arrogantly confident that nobody can touch them no matter what liberties they take with the law or with procedure. Mueller wasn't even given a specific crime, so the regs have been violated from the get-go.
POWELL: Right. Their arrogance is reason alone to fire them. They are supposed to be public servants. Everyone in government seems to have forgotten that and replaced it with a perverted sense of entitlement.
RUSH: But the original objective was to find out whether the Russians interfered with the election, whether Trump and Putin had a secret deal to beat Hillary, because it's unacceptable that a foreign power could impact our elections.
Okay. After a year and a half, there's nothing. Why not shut it down? There's nothing there. Instead, we're going after porn stars, we're going after Manafort on charges that had nothing to do with this objective. There's no evidence. In fact, when the 12 Russians were indicted in July, nobody was paying attention but Rosenstein said, "In these indictments, no American is being charged with violating the law. No election outcome was affected and not one vote was changed in the crimes alleged in these indictments." Well, what the hell are we talking about then?
POWELL: Right. Mueller has done nothing so far that a U.S. attorney could not and should not have done if there were real crimes involved. What he's been licensed to do is create his own Department of Justice for political purposes, "Department of Just-Us", as my T-shirt at CreepsOnAMission.com says.
RUSH: You know, I like that. But worse, what has evolved now, sadly, is a whole bunch of really ignorant people -- and I say this with no intention to be snarky -- who now seem to accept the idea that there needs to be a fourth branch of government called a Special Counsel to sit in daily judgment of the President.
POWELL: Beyond all measure of supervision or accountability.
RUSH: Right. Mueller is plowing through the Presidency, plowing through the Constitution, he's set himself up as a super-branch of government where he has power over the President. The media is treating him that way, and people are reacting as if Robert Mueller holds the fate of the Presidency in the palm of his hand. It's outrageous. It's not the Constitution, it's not in any way proper, with no end in sight, no specific charge. You mentioned Rosenstein is a Trump appointee. Well, you couldn't tell that by the way he's operating.
POWELL: No, and the same is true of Mr. Boente, who is now General Counsel at the FBI.
RUSH: So you've had firsthand experience with this, so it's kind of disheartening to hear you say there's no fix, no built-in solution, that it's going to take an infusion of new people.
POWELL: It is. Either that or Congress acting, but the infusion of new people is a lot more likely. Frankly, if we had a better head of the Department of Justice, we could get bipartisan criminal justice reform. That's what I really wrote the book to help inspire.
RUSH: So you're not particularly happy with Jeff Sessions.
POWELL: No. I'm very disappointed. I think he's an honorable man, I think he's a good man, but I think he really doesn't understand this problem. He's got blinders on. He hasn't practiced law in 30 years. And Rosenstein is a complete swamp creature -- along with his wife [Lisa Barsoomian, a government lawyer].
RUSH: Clearly his appointment was from loyalty, one of the first ranking government people to endorse Trump on Trump's signature issue. But what were you expecting from Sessions, before the recusal?
POWELL: I was really hoping for a substantial housecleaning. One of the remedies I think we need is that people not spend their entire careers in government service. We were meant to have a citizen government and we don't have that at all anymore. Instead, we have this entrenched bureaucracy that runs things without regard to the law or who is President or what the people want. It's what they want.
I remember 30 years ago when I was in a U.S. Attorney's Office, the administrative assistant saying, "I was here before this U.S. Attorney and I'm going to be here after this U.S. Attorney." That's the attitude. It's not healthy for people to stay in government service for 40 years. And it's certainly not healthy for our government and the citizens who are dealing with their atrocities. Like Lois Lerner, for example, who retired with a bonus and her pension, while Steve Stockman, who tried to have her held accountable, just got sent to prison.
RUSH: That's an indication of who still politically runs the town. But you prompt another question. Let's pick some names, Weissmann, Kathryn Ruemmler, some of those people. What does a government lawyer at their level earn per year?
POWELL: It's probably under $200,000.
RUSH: Okay, if they left and went to the private sector, could these people write their own ticket? If so, why do they stay for 30 and 40 years at less than $200,000 a year? Or do they leave and come back, and is it a revolving door? Like Comey went to Lockheed and earned a quick $6 0r $8 million funneling deals back and forth, he and Mueller. These people are some of the highest educated, from some of the most prestigious law schools, they have an education and resume pedigree that could earn them millions of dollars just as rainmakers, without even having to do any work.
POWELL: Some do it because they truly love it, but most of them do it, at least at the high-ranking levels, as a revolving door. For example, Kathryn Ruemmler has been a partner at Latham & Watkins three different times. Latham & Watkins is literally the highest-paying law firm in the country. They now have at least three former Enron Task Force prosecutors in their stable of white-collar criminal defense lawyers. Leslie Caldwell, Kathryn Ruemmler, and Sean Berkowitz. And they're making probably $5 million a year or more.
RUSH: They become big-ticket defense lawyers and then go back, depending on who is President, which Party is running things, put in some more time, create more contacts, power, then go back?
POWELL: Yes, very much so. Eric Holder's been in and out of Covington & Burling. Other major D.C. law firms have done the same with high-ranking DOJ people.
RUSH: Or they go to lobbying firms who have legal departments.
POWELL: Right.
RUSH: Are you still practicing yourself?
POWELL: I am still practicing.
RUSH: Do you appear in federal court still?
POWELL: I do, yes. I've got an oral argument next week in the Courts of Appeals for the 5th Circuit in New Orleans.
RUSH: Which you write extensively about. Do you appear before the same judges?
POWELL: Yes. That's why one of the judges changed my first name to "Stones" after he read my book. [Laughs] He said I had the biggest ones he'd ever seen, to say what I said and then walk into the courtroom in front of some of the same judges.
RUSH: So you must have some residual faith in the system if you're still defending people in it.
POWELL: Yes. I still have some residual faith, and I think the book has helped. A lot of judges have read it.
RUSH: You expressed tremendous admiration, I could just tell, for Justice Scalia in this book. In fact, some of the best writing in your book is the recounting of these appellate cases at the Supreme Court where I could read the relief on the page as the Supreme Court reversed some of those really wacky convictions. It seemed like your faith was renewed a little bit.
POWELL: Oh, yes. It helped a lot.
RUSH: Are you going to write another book?
POWELL: If I have time. I haven't finished talking about this one. [Laughs]
RUSH: Well, I'm sure you've got lots of material that continues to be amassed. I hope you do. Have any publishers asked you to do a new book since they've seen the success of this one?
POWELL: No.
RUSH: Not one?
POWELL: Nope.
RUSH: There are all kinds of conservative publishing houses out there that I would think would eat this book up.
POWELL: I know. I don't understand what the deal is. Well, I understood as long as Obama was President, but I don't understand now. I really appreciate your help even more, and Lou Dobbs,and Sean Hannity, the people who have picked up on this book and mentioned it.
RUSH: Well, to say you've hit a nerve would be an understatement. Obviously, you've been blackballed. And I totally understand it. If two million people had read this book, there would have been an entirely different outcome. If there had been that many eyeballs on it in the general public, there would be literal outrage, especially since you put it all into context with the same people now in this effort to drive the President out of office.
POWELL: Yes. If we can get a million people to read this book, we could change the system.
RUSH: Well, let's keep trying. I'm going to keep urging people to find it, as long as you can keep copies in print.
POWELL: Oh, I can. I self-funded this whole endeavor to spur criminal justice reform, and I own all the rights. I just put out a new, second edition paperback that includes an index because people had asked for that.
RUSH: Smart.
POWELL: Hardbacks are available at SidneyPowell.com or LicensedToLie.com or CreepsOnAMission.com, and I just reached an agreement with Midpoint to distribute the paperbacks nationwide.
RUSH: It's a great book with just a tremendous amount of work. It's a page-turner. You kept giving me reasons to turn the page, just wanting to see what came next. It really was fabulous.
POWELL: Thank you very much. I hope we can get enough people to read it that we really can change our criminal justice system because the American people deserve that.
RUSH: I do too. It's obviously been corrupted, and it shocks a lot of people who have had -- as I did, a naive idea of justice -- right and wrong, guilty and innocent. That clearly doesn't matter, which is what's shocking about it.
POWELL: Thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate it. You've helped get it to a lot more people, and we need that desperately. We must stop the egregious abuse of power we are watching now, and we can make the system better!